A list of flag strengths and weaknesses

Questions and comments on tactics and playstyles
User avatar
Quantum Tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:23 am

A list of flag strengths and weaknesses

Post by Quantum Tank »

I've decided to make a list of which superflags are best used against other superflags, which superflags are good on certain maps/styles of maps, etc. I'll put some in myself, and add any suggestions as they are made.
Note that the lists are purely mine and the others who have suggested's opinion. If you are of a different opinion as to which flags are good against which flags, please tell me, your opinion is valuable. Also note that these are not guarenteed to work, much still relies on skill and situation.

Flag beats Flag List:
SB vs OO
SW vs OO
SE vs ST
SE vs CL
CL vs L
L vs SW
WG vs L
GM vs L <- sometimes L can hit GM while GM is out of range, also depends on situation
GM vs WG
GM vs SW <- Sometimes SW can hit GM in hard to reach places, depends on situation
GM vs CL
(yes GM is good against a lot of flags)
ST vs GM <-(all past this are suggested, and edits)
SB vs PZ
SW vs PZ
WG vs BU
SE vs MQ
A vs BU
HS vs BU
TH vs BU
WA vs ST <- thank you BZNewman for this creative thought
GM vs BU
N vs BU
A vs GM
HS vs GM
T vs GM
Obesity vs BU <- Possible....
ST vs BU
ST vs ST
L vs L
GM vs GM <- Maybe, but unless one GM is destracted (and usually one is) then the exchange will end up with both tanks destroyed
The list goes on, suggest please!
Last edited by Quantum Tank on Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:34 pm, edited 11 times in total.
meeba
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: N. Sanity Beach

Post by meeba »

SB vs. PZ
SW vs. PZ
User avatar
Quantum Tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:23 am

Post by Quantum Tank »

Don't forget, I need suggestions for a list of what flags are good in certain maps or map styles.
User avatar
CannonBallGuy
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 2083
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:31 am
Contact:

Post by CannonBallGuy »

SW and L beat GM in a lot of cases
WG can beat BU...
Image

Merry Christmas!

"Look, if I don't buy booze for the kids, I don't get any incriminating pictures to show to their parents, my business goes down the sink, my girlfriend leaves me and the baby goes on ebay. So help me search..."

"go Play With Toys urself in a dark alley u donkey ******" - Lt-Kirby2007
User avatar
Quantum Tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:23 am

Post by Quantum Tank »

I usually thought that GMs can hit SWers before they are in range, but i guess SWers can hit GMers on high places...
slon02
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:27 pm

Post by slon02 »

SE can beat MQ.
You made a mistake on your SW vs PH, i think you meant SW vs PZ.
Current Server: hosting.BZADDICT.net:5173
Former Server: Fairserve.bzflag.org:5259
User avatar
SkillDude
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: United States

Post by SkillDude »

Also,

A can beat BU
V can beat BU
TH can beat BU

they can all possibly go faster than the person with BU, depending on the server variables.
User avatar
Contamination
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:33 pm
Location: somewhere in the USA

Post by Contamination »

GM's CAN kill st. the gm shot just needs to have a second to depoy and if it hit's a st, then it will kill him. You just can't lock on to a st with gm
User avatar
Contamination
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:33 pm
Location: somewhere in the USA

Post by Contamination »

PZ can also kill PZ when both tanks are zoned
Warinthestar
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:53 pm
Location: Kissimmee, Florida
Contact:

Post by Warinthestar »

gm>bu in most cases the burrow dosent move fast enough to avoid a gm
User avatar
A Vicious Muffin
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 534
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:25 am
Location: Drury Lane

Post by A Vicious Muffin »

Narrow and tiny are quite good against burrow, especially head on. Not too great against laser, but in my opinion, good against guided missile.
Agility and high speed are good against guided missile on most normal servers.
Thief is only good for killing with the flag itself on burrow, but I would classify it in it's own column. It's usually the best flag on the map, if you steal it correctly.
Shock wave beats steamroller. Steamroller works well against all players above and below it.
Blue team is better than red team. :wink:
Image
User avatar
Contamination
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:33 pm
Location: somewhere in the USA

Post by Contamination »

Well if you think about it, most flags can kill any other one.

Like you could do:
L-SW
L-GM
L-WG
L-GENO
L-ST
and so on...


like the only flags laser can't kill is cl and a burrowed bu.

you could just do that to every flag there is and have quite a long line
BZNewman
Private
Private
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:09 am

Post by BZNewman »

I don't know if this counts for anything since bad flags are usually only temporary and just a few seconds at that. But, Wide Angle can sometimes be helpful against Stealth in terms of extending viewing area. It's worthless though against a Stealth that gets in behind. So, I wouldn't say that WA "defeats" ST, but can be helpful.

SR can be helpful against a player who jumps a lot (e.g., 2 tanks jumping into each other while going at it). Besides being useful for jumping up to get a player above you, it can also help against OO-flag players in a narrow wall or are sitting near the edge of an obstacle (e.g., pyramid, pillar, etc.) while inside.
User avatar
A Looney Kumquat
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:33 am
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Bad topic, I think

Post by A Looney Kumquat »

I think for the most part, this is all in vain, because it matters how good each flag is (shot count, range, reload time) and if you are a good BZer you can pretty much beat anything with anything.... it also depends heavily on the server, tank speed, and availibility of flags, so this is a whole lotta nothing, and also, like rock paper scissors, something is always beat by something and beats something, so there will be hundreds of flag beats flag combos, therefore making this too much for ANYONE to read through, never the less use- I mean, you get a SE, there isnt going to ST or CL right in front of you, and nobody in their right mind would ONLY go after the flags that you can beat, because you'll ALWAYS have to avoid/beat someone with a flag "that beats yours"
-ALK
_________________

OS Moment <"O""S" mo·ment>
1) Where one can see something bad about to happen, cant do a bloody thing about it, but still has time to say "Oh 5h!t!!!" 2) An action that makes all the surrounding people drop their jaw and say "Oh 5h!t...."
User avatar
Grace F
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA

Post by Grace F »

GM isn't that effective against those that know how to avoid it. I know lots of people that can kill a GM with any flag no matter what the situation is. This is on most maps where the GM shot is slow but on a map like MissleWars, it's a different case.
flipper_boy wrote:Well if you think about it, most flags can kill any other one.

Like you could do:
L-SW
L-GM
L-WG
L-GENO
L-ST
and so on...
That's right, this makes this 1 big topic :)
warinthestar wrote:gm>bu in most cases the burrow dosent move fast enough to avoid a gm
Ive always thought that on most maps the BU speed is set to the same speed a default tank is. Being as how a normal tank - default speed - can avoid GM pretty easily, the BU should too. Unless it's heading straight for a block in which case it's gone.
Image
Image
User avatar
Quantum Tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:23 am

Post by Quantum Tank »

A Looney Kumquat: I know what you mean by saying that most of it depends on skill, and i agree with you (maybe you could actually read my first post hm?), I made this list to show what flags have some type of advantage over the other.
User avatar
Contamination
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:33 pm
Location: somewhere in the USA

Post by Contamination »

Yes dodging gm with bu is pretty easy for me. I just angle myself just right compared to the gm shot, and i'm fine. You just have to get the angle right when your bu'ed
User avatar
Quantum Tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:23 am

Post by Quantum Tank »

Flipper_Boy: You are right too, pretty much any flag can kill any other flag, but again, this is a matter of advantage. For example, L could easily kill ST, but if the ST sneaks up behind the L, the L is probably dead.
User avatar
Contamination
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:33 pm
Location: somewhere in the USA

Post by Contamination »

Yeah, I see what you mean. I assume you don't want one that indepth? Everybody knows that 1 flag CAN kill almost everyone, but do you mean just the none obvious ones?
User avatar
Quantum Tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:23 am

Post by Quantum Tank »

Say, for example, that somebody was going on an unstoppable rampage with, perhaps, Shock Wave. What flag would you look for to use against that SWer. Thats what I mean by "having an advantage".
User avatar
*Boinkage*!
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 1:49 am
Location: Behind you with a stealth flag.

Post by *Boinkage*! »

G vs Everything

;p
The Pen is Mightier Than the Sword.

Okay, you get a Bic, the orc gets a long sword.

He cuts the Bic in half.

Then he cuts you in half.

Oops, I meant quarters.
User avatar
Quantum Tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:23 am

Post by Quantum Tank »

Thats not what i mean... G doesn't give you any extra advantage, so
G is the same as a normal tank in this topic.
User avatar
Contamination
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:33 pm
Location: somewhere in the USA

Post by Contamination »

Btw, TH=theif and T=tiny :!:
User avatar
Quantum Tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:23 am

Post by Quantum Tank »

Oh yes, thank you.
User avatar
SkillDude
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: United States

Post by SkillDude »

One time on Mofo, there was a person with BU (as usual), and I headed for a flag (possibly GM, A, or TH) to stop him. The BU person closed in and then the coolest thing happened. I got O and squished him because I was such a large tank! (Of course I still got shot).

So this makes another bad flag in the very least of circumstances, useful.

O vs. BU
Post Reply