New player finding the game hostile

Questions and comments on tactics and playstyles
Beenz
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New player finding the game hostile

Post by Beenz » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:45 am

I'm not talking about the dying as fast as I resurrect... I expected that. It's part of being a noob.

I'm talking about players cursing me, voting to ban me, for the sin of not having a clue. I'm talking about teammates deliberately blasting me time after time until it becomes apparent that the only way I'll get any playtime is to switch servers. I'm talking about people who, apparently, were born knowing how to play, and never had to learn. And, based on the admittedly limited experience I've had so far, I'm talking to about 80% of you.

A suggestion. If you don't want a noob messing up your game, TELL THEM! Say "Hey, noob, move on!" At least be straight up about it. What good do the insults, the teammate killings, and the votes to ban do? They just take longer to do the same job.

Not that it matters... to me, the climate the game is played in is as important as the game itself. I'm not prone to snap judgments, so I'll give it another night or two. I recognize that someone somewhere put time and energy into making this game, and I'd like a chance to appreciate the fruits of their efforts. If those fruits are continuously spoiled by the other players, though, there are plenty more games out there for me to spend my appreciation on.

I'm not asking for anything. Not expecting much beyond flames. Just sharing my experience.

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Post by Spazzy McGee » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:24 am

I think it's a sad sign of the way the community as a whole is tending towards. An inevitable side effect as BZFlag has become more popular (as it has over the past few years), although I wouldn't go as far as to say 80%. I find that the community in general are great, helpful people.

To be honest these obnoxious players are probably 'noobs's themselves, just ones that have suddenly learned how to use the /poll command.

I agree insults are the wrong thing to do. I urge those who are a bit trigger happy with the /poll command to think about it before they blindly call a poll. Ever thought of TALKING to a noob? Explain to them what they are doing wrong. This is far more helpful than just booting them from the server, when the noob probably has no idea what they did wrong.

Might I ask which servers you're experiencing problems on? You might want to try servers with a more established community: Two castles, Missile wars, MoFo. In the case of MoFo, and I think the lack of strick 'family' rules in some ways helps this kind of problem, as people don't feel bound to 'uphold the server rules' themselves.

It's a shame you've started with such a bad impression of us.
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Post by ts » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:19 pm

Regarding insults I suggest not to play at Planet ****. I was being insulted there, too. It's allowed at this server, so players do at this server. It's a different audience there.

Regarding teamkills: Good players tend to assume their mates can avoid getting shot by them when they chase a different player. There are also sometimes unlucky situations, like not being aware of current own colour after switching teams. Take a look at the scoreboard (s key) to see if it's just another newbie trying to teamkill you. If it isn't, you could just ask them why they do it.

In CTF modes - that's where you can see the team coloured flags - players tend to teamkill a mate that is driving away with their own teamflag, especially when it's a newbie because it's quicker than writing a message and is always successfull. That could also be the reason people calling polls on you. In my experience polls were called in 99% for a valid reason.

However, all depends on what servers you play. There are servers that have a bigger and more experienced admin crew and others that don't have such a thing.
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Post by Spazzy McGee » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:55 pm

In my experience polls were called in 99% for a valid reason.
I disagree, in my experience most polls are called for completely invalid reasons, except in the case of cheaters. On the various servers I admin for (not referring specifically to mofo), I find myself vetoing most polls, and then upon asking what the poll was for, I get no response or an insult - yet no explaination or reason.
Last edited by Spazzy McGee on Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CapN » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:10 pm

Hey Beenz,

Sorry to hear about your negative experiences. I think some of the specialized servers that have very loyal crowds are probably the worst for this sort of thing.....but it still shouldnt happen. Have you tried sending private messages to some of the people who are doing well.....score wise....on the server? Ask them for suggestions and help in how to get better.

I would also suggest trying some of the more basic server setups...like pillbox or ducati even. Some very experienced players there but the map set up is such that learning for yourself should come eas

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Post by Beenz » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:59 pm

Wow, what a wonderful set of responses! I was half expecting "Yeah, who needs ya, noob!" Instead I find, well, exactly the type of climate I'd hoped for initially. Hooray!!

I don't actually know what servers I was playing on... I tend to scroll waaaaay down the list to find ones that have only a few players, rather than immerse myself in an epic battle.

Since so much of the advice was based on my choice of server, I'll start with the recommendations posted here. Is there a list somewhere I can refer to? I looked thru the parent forum topics, but didn't see anything obviously related.

Thanks again for the supportive replies. I look forward to eating your lead!!

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Post by tw1sted » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:40 am

Beenz wrote:Wow, what a wonderful set of responses! I was half expecting "Yeah, who needs ya, noob!" Instead I find, well, exactly the type of climate I'd hoped for initially. Hooray!!
Tipically, the users on the forums are much more mature than some of the players on the servers. If you ever have a question, you can always count on a respectfull answer here on the forums.

And i must say: for a so called "noob", you sure presented yourself non-noobishly(is that even a word?). In recent times, we have had an influx of people posting in AIM/1337 speek, so i congratulate you for starting out on the right foot :)

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Post by Tank 52 » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:37 am

Yes congrats, and since youre just starting out you should try some servers with alot of people in them, or dodge trainers, most people there are usually nice, ill give you a few names of some nice people in this game. Easy Target, Del, Ratfink, THe traitor, Fury, everyone who gave you a post here, Carioca, Ride, Dr. Robotnik, ashleypologi,sigonstar,Pacman87 and well im tired now so uh, yeah im tired and icould just keep going on and on but im to tired good night. And try to find me and any people i listed and have them help you and talk to others see their personalities and make friends.
So, hurry up and go and dont be a turtle. :turtle:
Also if this stuff continues from the same person over and over and they have no reason for it, tell and administrator.
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Post by Sky King » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:41 pm

I agree with what others have said. The nature of online games provides anonymity. If you've been around online communities much, then you know that some will use that anonymity as a way to be very open and honest, with no fear of reprisal. But, many will also use it to put on a persona that isn't really them, and usually, this is the "tough guy" persona.

I have said this before in other threads, I'll say it again here. People ask me why I can be pretty stern at times as an administrator. And it comes down to this.

There are two kinds of players on every server:

Type "A": Most of us are taking a break from work, school, kids, whatever, and just want a place to hang out, be part of a community, belong, participate... We're just here for the spirit of competition, the challenge, the camaraderie.

Type "B": But then there's a second kind of player--the antagonist. They come to BZ in the hopes of "fixing" their crappy day or their misery in life by diminishing others. They are living the illusion that by making your day a little worse, they are making theirs a little better. You all know the behavior... Swearing, cursing, abuse, cutting corners, spawn camping, excessive polling, cheating, intentional team killing, joining team CTF servers and not trying, or running up negative scores on purpose...

That antagonistic behavior manifests itself many ways, but the root of it is the same, and I just have very little tolerance for it. You're either here to contribute--to add to the game--or you are here to take--to make the game worse for others.

My job as an admin is pretty simple. It's to protect the "Type A" player from the "Type B" player... My job is to cultivate fair play, enhance competition, promote the spirit of the game, and to coach newbies. If you are a "Type A" player, you're probably gonna love the way I admin... and if you are a "Type B" player you are probably gonna hate me with all your heart and soul because I have no qualms about hammering antagonists.

One thing I might recommend for your specific situation... Find servers where experienced, well-known admins are playing, and that should prevent a lot of the shenanigans you've experienced.
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Post by macsforme » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:59 am

A lot of good things have been said here. To sum up my thoughts: there are friendly/cooperative players, players that whine/complain/insult, servers that allow the latter, and servers that do not. On servers that I'm an admin on, I generally find myself giving gentle warnings in response to insults, followed by muting the player if the problem persists. However, this has perhaps opened my eyes to just how discouraging these issues can be for new players (I've been playing for several years, so it's not easy to relate), and I may be inclined to deal with these issues more aggressively when the opportunity arises.

If you're looking for a recommendation of servers that are conducive to friendly players, I would recommend Badgerking's Aerial and Ground Attack FFA (badgerking.fiedlers.us:5667). This is a server that has been around for a long time, has a friendly and helpful administration team, and has quite a fun map.

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Post by dexter » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:39 am

I think that the BZFlag community is separated into to halves.
One would be the community that is fair, kind and helpful and the other are immature players that really have nothing better to do than be a drag.

I recommend joining a league or playing on some league servers because the atmosphere is completely different than on the other public servers. Almost all of the players I've met through the leagues are very fair and decent and are the reason the leagues are fun. You really don't get much of the cursing or swearing there either. Some people say that playing the same map all the time is boring but I think that the players are the essential thing.
By joining a league you'll find some great players, I'll assure you of that.

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Post by Bullet Catcher » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:52 am

Beenz wrote:I tend to scroll waaaaay down the list to find ones that have only a few players, rather than immerse myself in an epic battle.
Generally, the servers at the top of the list are popular because they are well administered. You'll learn the game more quickly and with less frustration if you spend more time there, as you'll kind of get lost in the crowd. As long as you don't kill your teammates (AKA teamkilling, or just TK) too much you should be treated fairly.

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Post by trainee » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:11 am

Beenz:

It takes a while (longer than that for me!) to get the hang of it. You can let an admin know that you are new. There are some players that will help you out and give you pointers. You can also practice alone or with another player on an unpopulated map to develop your skills. After a few months, you'll get the hang of it.

Just try to avoid carrying your teams flag away from the base, capturing your own flag, and team killing (especially if you have the genocide flag).

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Post by dexter » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:40 am

Bullet Catcher wrote:
Beenz wrote:I tend to scroll waaaaay down the list to find ones that have only a few players, rather than immerse myself in an epic battle.
Generally, the servers at the top of the list are popular because they are well administered. You'll learn the game more quickly and with less frustration if you spend more time there, as you'll kind of get lost in the crowd. As long as you don't kill your teammates (AKA teamkilling, or just TK) too much you should be treated fairly.
Actually, the servers that are high on the list are the ones running a popular map. There are many servers high on the list that don't have admins 90% of the time or some just don't have any at all. Players will still play the map because they enjoy it. This is also the reason why you could have a superb server and a superb admin team but people would only play there if the map was right.
So just because the map is high on the list server, don't automatically assume they have a good admin team. Obviously some servers high on the list do have a decent administration but I can't say that applies for all of them.

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Post by Quantum Tank » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:32 pm

Welcome Beenz, sorry to find your first experience of the BzFlag community hostile. Trust me, we're not all like that. Most the the players you will see more than once and therefore get to know are friendly, rule abiding, and generally non-noob-calling.

BzFlag is hard when starting out, so you will inevitably tick off some other players, but its best to learn from your mistakes. If somebody is really harassing you, just report it to an admin or go to a different server. (Admins have an @ next to their name on the player list, just in case you didn't know that.)

Some good servers to learn basic skills such as dodging, ricochet (sometimes), and jumping (sometimes) are Pillbox, HIX, ducati, and The Ring (which is not always on the first page, but is still fun). Once you master the basic skills and want to fight with flags, some good places to go are Badgerking, Missile War, and Planet Mofo. Mofo has a lot of swearing etc, so be careful there.

Hopefully you'll soon discover the good side of the BzFlag community. :D

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Post by Wreckage » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:21 pm

Beenz: I'd take note of these users who symapthize, they are most likely willing to help you out if you need it. I agree about Badgerking's: I've never had a problem there as I look back 3...4...6 years.

I don't really care that much anymore when I'm insulted, but good advice also:
Regarding insults I suggest not to play at Planet ****
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Post by Beenz » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:36 am

My subsequent visits have definitely been more upbeat (if still humiliatingly fatal!) I'm having a good time! And, on occasion, I even manage to kill someone!!

I'm developing an early attraction to radar-free maps. Less distraction. I can imagine that changing as I get more comfortable and begin to make a harder target, but it's sure fun for now!

I'm glad I stuck around.

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Post by slon02 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:50 am

Most of the popular servers that are on the front page always, with...mindless killing and lasers involved (no flaming please, just an opinion) get a more hostile environment and the players there are less newb-friendly.
Anyway congratulations on getting some kills and I hope you enjoy Bzflag.
I like no radar too.
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Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:30 pm

Just a tip: radar-free maps (like Mystic Valley) are fun, but as a beginner you should make sure that you don't get used to relying only on your main screen (aka "out the window"). Using radar is a VERY important skill, and I know plenty of people (most of them very very good) who use only the radar. It's not that you should play at no-radar maps, just make sure you don't only rely on the out the window view.

P.S. Congratulations on being one of the lucky minority in BZflag who type in complete sentences with good spelling and grammar! Trust me, this will earn you a *lot* of respect in the future.

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Post by Beenz » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:28 am

That's twice I've been congratulated for speaking, or rather typing, English!

Eh, I've not a lot of respect for someone who, with all the time in the world, can't string together 2 coherent sentences. So it takes me a few minutes to compose a thought... at least it is less subject to interpretation!

PS
I can't type for beans, so if you see me online, I'll be every bit as articulate, but noticeably less spell-checked!!

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Post by pufferfish » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:07 pm

Use the K key to silence hostile players. Don't argue with angry people, they are impervious to logic. Admins make a huge difference in this game - without them it would be total chaos, we're like kids who need adult supervision.

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Post by trainee » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:29 am

Some players actually are kids that need adult supervision. Other players are adults that need adult supervision. Many, IME, are the salt of the earth.

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"god darn"

Post by iamawinner » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:04 am

i was told that "god darn " was considered inappropriate. i would like a poll and fact. guys u think thats considered profanity? swearing as the admis said to me? and if in the rule book, i know it said no swearing, but i hardly say "god darn" is inappropriate content by any age??

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Re: "god darn"

Post by blast » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:31 am

iamawinner wrote:i was told that "god darn " was considered inappropriate. i would like a poll and fact. guys u think thats considered profanity? swearing as the admis said to me? and if in the rule book, i know it said no swearing, but i hardly say "god darn" is inappropriate content by any age??
Like I already responded in your original thread, server owners make the rules. Deal with it.
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Post by iamawinner » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:44 am

hey blast . i like ur responses, but man do u have to be that harsh? man, u tell me ur worries and concerns and i say deal with it. man lol.
well.. guess im a bit sensitive.. but yea.. guess i do have to deal with it, since part of life..sure

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