Is this a cheap tactic?

Questions and comments on tactics and playstyles
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dartman
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Is this a cheap tactic?

Post by dartman » Wed May 16, 2012 3:05 am

I was playing on Bloodbath today for an hour or so and on a few occasions made use of a strategy I like on that map, one that no one ever seemed to complain about until today. The main guy who was complaining about it clearly was just trying to be a douche, but I figured, hey, why not see what the rest of the BZFlag community thinks?

It's basically a defensive tactic: I grab laser and then wait at the receiving end of my team's in-rail, the one that was very clearly designed so to give the other team an easy path into our base, and I snipe whoever tries to hop on the rail and invade. It always seemed to me like a fair tactic to use on maps like Bloodbath, because:

1) It's entirely avoidable. There are plenty of other ways into my team's base if they really want to get in, and in order for my strategy to work, they have to take the bait first by choosing to use the rail. It's not like I'm perched over in their base with GM and spawnkilling them before they have a chance to prepare for it or defend themselves.

2) It still leaves me in a vulnerable position. Using this strategy pretty much requires that I switch to the zoomed-in binoculars in order to snipe accurately, so someone can easily just sneak up behind me and kill me with ST, or jump up from the middle of the map and kill me with GM or maybe SW. Another good counter-strategy I've seen people use (often after they've seen that I'm waiting for them with laser) is to hop on the rail with CL, which protects them from laserfire and forces me to try to react extremely quickly by dropping my flag, going back to normal zoom, and then see if I can actually aim and hit them before they can get past me. Given the maps long dimensions and limited radar range, that's way easier said than done, and usually when someone does that I either end up dead or at least out of position and without a flag. Often when people complain about me using this strategy, they aren't thinking of these alternate methods of getting past me. But most of the time people try the alternate methods before complaining.

3) It should be a very obvious strategy to use, and using it is conducive to teamwork. Like I said, the rails on the map were clearly designed for tanks to sweep across and invade the enemy base. Wouldn't it make sense that someone on the other team might notice that, and therefore be waiting there at the other end to defend their base from invaders? It's simply controlling a very obvious and rather intentionally designed chokepoint, and prevents the other team from getting to our flag or otherwise wreaking havoc in our spawnzones. I also used it as part of a somewhat more advanced team strategy: One of my teammates was at the other end of the platform, and he was acting as a distraction to lure the enemy to jump up to the platform so that I could take them out. I don't think that's cheap either, because all they had to do was not take the bait, and again, they could've had someone else kill me from out of my view while I was focused straight ahead.

The main complaint I was hearing was that I was "base-camping," but if that's what I was doing, then I'm not sure base-camping is such a bad thing--it just seems like regular base/flag defensive tactics, just with a name that makes it sound bad. What, do they expect me to just let them come right in to my base without a fight? :roll: Also, it's not like I use this tactic for the whole time; normally I don't do it unless most of my team is already on the offense, and it would make sense to have one or two people staying back to guard the base, or if someone has, say, ST and I might have reason to expect a threat coming from that particular area. I'm not the kind of player to just pansy out in the base the whole time, and anyone who's seen me play (especially on other maps) can attest to the fact that I tend to be a very agressive, offense-oriented player, often to the point of recklessness. I can see how it might be considered lame if the entire time was just cowering behind the walls around our base, but that's almost never the case.

So what do you think--cheap tactic, or did the people fussing about it just have their panties all up in a bunch?
Last edited by dartman on Wed May 16, 2012 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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L4m3r
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Re: Is this a cheap tactic?

Post by L4m3r » Wed May 16, 2012 4:24 am

Generally, I feel that camping and other "cheap" tactics aren't cheap when used for defensive purposes in CTF. Ideally, you're neutralizing threats as they approach, not just trying to rack up points. Given that few players are ever willing to play defense, you'd be crazy not to take advantage of every resource at your disposal.

Your arguments are sound, too. If anything, using fast conveyors to traverse a map is a cheap tactic, which is why I personally prefer maps that do not have those kinds of features. (it would be less bad if not for the fact that someone can grab a team flag and use the other conveyor to escape and run back to base). Obviously the mapper intended for it to be played that way, though. If he/she felt that sniping the conveyors was a cheap tactic, that could easily be mitigated by the map also.

I've never heard "base camping" used to describe defending your own base, just spawnkilling. Sounds like a case of sore losers to me.
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Re: Is this a cheap tactic?

Post by mahem1 » Wed May 16, 2012 4:10 pm

I wouldn't call it cheap, just a fair trade-off. If the other team cared enough, they could just as easily camp on there own out-rail, else they can accept the gambit grab cloaking.
Although these tactics would really slow down the gameplay when you have less the 6 or so players.
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Re: Is this a cheap tactic?

Post by mr64bit » Wed May 16, 2012 6:11 pm

I agree with l4m3r, a sore loser/newb who wants the easy way. I've been in BB before, and a player was complaining that I was guarding the rail the whole time, so, my whole team took turns! (so that no one person was camping ;)
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Re: Is this a cheap tactic?

Post by Iskskskks » Fri May 18, 2012 2:45 am

L4m3r wrote:Generally, I feel that camping and other "cheap" tactics aren't cheap when used for defensive purposes in CTF. Ideally, you're neutralizing threats as they approach, not just trying to rack up points. Given that few players are ever willing to play defense, you'd be crazy not to take advantage of every resource at your disposal.

Your arguments are sound, too. If anything, using fast conveyors to traverse a map is a cheap tactic, which is why I personally prefer maps that do not have those kinds of features. (it would be less bad if not for the fact that someone can grab a team flag and use the other conveyor to escape and run back to base). Obviously the mapper intended for it to be played that way, though. If he/she felt that sniping the conveyors was a cheap tactic, that could easily be mitigated by the map also.

I've never heard "base camping" used to describe defending your own base, just spawnkilling. Sounds like a case of sore losers to me.
I also agree with l4m3r. I did the same as mr.64bit it's not camping if your defending.

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Re: Is this a cheap tactic?

Post by dartman » Fri May 18, 2012 2:58 am

Figured he was just being a sore loser. I was trying to tell the guy that I was defending the base, but he wouldn't have it. :?

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Re: Is this a cheap tactic?

Post by Iskskskks » Sat May 19, 2012 4:41 am

dartman wrote:Figured he was just being a sore loser. I was trying to tell the guy that I was defending the base, but he wouldn't have it. :?
I do the same. I had the same problem too.

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