Extra points for flag capture!

Questions and comments on tactics and playstyles
GenHowitzer
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Extra points for flag capture!

Post by GenHowitzer » Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:52 am

Idea: add some strategy by giving two points to whatever player actually captures the flag and brings it to their home base. That will make it worth the effort.

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Post by [dmp] » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:31 am

CTF is a teamsport, so a team needs to work together. Its rare that one single player can do the capture on is own. And if he gets help, why is the helpers work not worthy of rewards.

The tank carrying the flag the last few inches might not be the one that made the capture possible. And I'll bet that some might consider TK'ing to get the extra points.

I think that individual score should be removed, and focus should be on ONLY teamscore. But thats just me :)
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Post by carerra » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:23 pm

yea, i cap the flag by myself alot. its not that we dont have teamwork, just one person defends and the other gets the flag. thats how we do it most of the time but against some teams we use other stratagies. :twisted:
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Post by RPG » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:35 pm

Same with me. I always go for the flags. Often times though I'll be really down in the scoreboard because I'm focused on capturing the flag and nothing else. That's how I set record lows on my score, by playing CTF.

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Post by sbgodin » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:11 pm

The main problem is tk-ing a player carrying the flag. The bad teammate would kill him (-1) and win lots of points (+10) with the flag.

Here are my proposals :
- tk-ing the flag tank may make the tk-guy loses as many points as capturing the flag would have provided.
- capturing the flag would give as many points as there are tanks in the other team. Or a fixed amount of points. The amount of points may grow with the time elapsed since the last capture.
- being killed while having the flag of the other team would allow the player to not lose any point and to not be destroyed. As SH but for some seconds to prevent multiple-shoots. Either, he would come back to his base.
- if a tank is killed with the flag and a teammate is just near, the flag will be given to the teammate. Maybe, if the player releases the flag himself, it would also be given to the teammate.

Mmh?
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Post by RPG » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:42 pm

sbgodin wrote:Here are my proposals :
- tk-ing the flag tank may make the tk-guy loses as many points as capturing the flag would have provided. Sure
- capturing the flag would give as many points as there are tanks in the other team. Or a fixed amount of points. The amount of points may grow with the time elapsed since the last capture. Nahh, I think the flag capturer should get either 1 or 2 points.
- being killed while having the flag of the other team would allow the player to not lose any point and to not be destroyed. As SH but for some seconds to prevent multiple-shoots. Either, he would come back to his base. That would make the flag carrier invincible, and that would piss off other players.
- if a tank is killed with the flag and a teammate is just near, the flag will be given to the teammate. Maybe, if the player releases the flag himself, it would also be given to the teammate. Nah, then capturing would be too easy. (Grab flag, drop it, it goes to teammate next to base)

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Post by toaster » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:18 pm

If you look back, you will find lots of threads and discussions on scoring CTF. There haven't been any changes to the CTF scoring system in a long time.

If nothing else, there probably needs to be a serious consensus about how scoring would be best before we could convince the dev community to change it.

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Post by ekeko » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:40 am

It is like playing two games at the same time.
One idividual (trying to get a better score), and another groupal (team game), taking the flag.

1) The player must play both at the same time, chossing the most important is a part of the game. Personaly I prefeer to loose points in order to improve the groupal game, but at the same time i am looking my score. i.e: now i am trying to kill at least one tank after being killed, in order to mantain the score, and i can see that i am improving my performance (eventhou I continue playing for the team more than for me) and it is good for the team, because i am slowly begining to play better.

2) The rank ins not really important, neither the team score, because it is related more with the history of the game (bzsever) and the hystory of the player. ie: each time you re-conect to the server you return to the middle of the socre rank, so it is not really important. The individual player score is more like an autoevaluation, and you most compare it with your score in other games. And it is not so easy, because the causality probability increses with the number of tanks in a game (you have bullets comming from everywhere).

3) Not all the games ar CTF, so modifing the score could be not so easy.

4) But, I think an individual flag scoring (captures, basing, etc) could be and interesting information for showing in our screens.

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i object!

Post by IF I KILL U U R UGLY » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:18 am

giving points to the flag capturer? hmmm... i think it incites team killing more. i mean even when there isnt an incentive to capture there are guys who kill the flag carrier and bring it in themselves. well, i haven't seen it happen in awhile but i kno i might ^_^
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Post by BinarySpike » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:42 pm

Why don't you just make it everybody on the team gets a point if the other teams flag is caputured.

This would make people not tk, and the really good people would
deffend the flag to keep the other teams points low.

You could also make it an option to how many points the wins, and
how many points the other team loses.

You wouldn't have to add in all this wierd; if tk, flag you die type of wierd stuff.

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Post by Guest » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:34 pm

I think the personaly score should be abolished on ctf.
Who cares what your personal score is?
It's CTF... There is no Individual winner, so why rank individuals...
its a TEAM! game, so you only need TEAM! scores...

I hate how lately (on gu.de mainly) many many people just play FFA and It seems I am always on their team and I'm the only one ever trying to save our flag from being capped.

ABOLISH PLAYER SCORES ON CTF!

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Post by der_joachim » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:28 pm

[dmp] wrote:And I'll bet that some might consider TK'ing to get the extra points.
Not if TK-ing == suicide. If someone kills his teammate, thus blowing himself up, nobody wins .

An extra point for bringing the enemy flag home sounds like a decent idea though. I've been on too many CTF games which were just DM games because it was not worth the trouble getting a flag. :|

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Post by budgie » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:01 am

Separate score listings for:
flags captured
flags carried
flag carriers killed

SW type killzone around enemy base that goes off immediately before team respawns to discourage those pesky base campers...

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Post by BinarySpike » Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:15 am

I'm not sure if you lose points by map wepons (like my "forbidden zone" or a moat)

But, you could make this SW bomb with a map weapon and make it fire about every three seconds, this would discourage campers, but any good shot can become a camper with an SW bomb...


If you made it where the teams gets a score for placing the flag,
and maybe whoever placed it got two points, this would mean MORE teamwork.


the server I play; viper.pimpi.org, has a lot of good people (Nelly, Smile Dude ;-), Black [BG]) that don't go for the flag, except when it's been passed to the middle and the other team was hit with there G...
CanonBallGuy wrote:ABOLISH PLAYER SCORES ON CTF!
NO!!!

Make it either where you gain points for placing the flag, or you can't get points by killing and you have to place the flag(but the team doesn't get points just you).


Why?
If you abolish all scoring for CTF (except whole-team score), then you
would lose all interest in CTF games.

(If winning didn't mean you had to re-connect then I would love CTF games like Halo)

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Post by Guest » Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:35 am

I meant abolish the current scores...
Maybe somthing like (Current Scores/4) + Team Caps + Your Caps + Carrier Kills

So you still get points for killing/dieing like normal, but they only count a tiny way towards your actual score...

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Post by RexFlex » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:03 pm

I prefer the status quo.

If anyone really considers capturing the flag to be worthless, consider this :

1) no-one is telling you that you have to capture it yourself. If you prefer personal point scoring, leave the flag capturing to others. There are plenty of other roles you can take in the game.

2) Capturing the flag is a team supportive move. If you aren't into supporting team mates, maybe playing a game that permits rogues might be a better choice. I like how CTF games puts more focus on teamwork.

3) Capturing the flag has many intrinsic benefits for you as well as the others in your team. With the entire oponent team wiped out and momentarily without powerup flags, your team - and therefor you - have an advantage over the opponents and have a good chance of getting some extra kills in before it rebalances.

So, I'm opposed to personal point scoring for the CTF action, but not against other scoring that currently exists.

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Post by Teppic » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:34 am

CannonBallGuy wrote:ABOLISH PLAYER SCORES ON CTF!
This would kill any currently running handicap system.

I'd like to see more ctf servers using the maximum team score variable though. If one team caps say 10 times in 30 minutes or so, restart the game and invariably redistribute the better players between the teams.

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Post by Dervish » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:21 am

[quote="Teppic]... If one team caps say 10 times in 30 minutes or so, restart the game and invariably redistribute the better players between the teams.[/quote]
lol! Yeah, sure.

I don't know about you, but getting switched back and forth between teams would not only annoying, but also confusing. "oops, sorry I killed you teammate... just a few minutes ago I was playing against our color".
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Post by Teppic » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:39 am

Dervish wrote:
Teppic wrote:... If one team caps say 10 times in 30 minutes or so, restart the game and invariably redistribute the better players between the teams.
lol! Yeah, sure.

I don't know about you, but getting switched back and forth between teams would not only annoying, but also confusing. "oops, sorry I killed you teammate... just a few minutes ago I was playing against our color".
Of you have trouble remembering one of two colours then I sympathise with your plight :-P

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Time for change

Post by MadHatter » Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:04 am

I'm completely with CannonBallGuy on this one.

I feel that personal scores are irrelevant and somewhat misleading on CTF servers.

As:
Rabbit Hunt servers show your kill percentage as the Rabiit
FFA servers show personal scores
why cant CTF servers only show Team flag captures????????????


Recently i've encountered some extremely good Team Players (CTFing & defending well) who have had pretty dismal personal scores.

This should not be so. Why should a player FFAing get to have the highest score.

In my opinion the abolition of personal scores on CTF servers is long overdue.

Regarding the scoring (team score), if the individual scores were abolished completely a single point for the team for a succesful capture would suffice.

I would personally also like to see some kind of penalty for teams with many players who choose to pray on teams with few players.

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Re: Time for change

Post by Guest » Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:32 pm

MadHatter wrote:I'm completely with CannonBallGuy on this one.

I feel that personal scores are irrelevant and somewhat misleading on CTF servers.

As:
Rabbit Hunt servers show your kill percentage as the Rabiit
FFA servers show personal scores
why cant CTF servers only show Team flag captures????????????


Recently i've encountered some extremely good Team Players (CTFing & defending well) who have had pretty dismal personal scores.

This should not be so. Why should a player FFAing get to have the highest score.

In my opinion the abolition of personal scores on CTF servers is long overdue.

Regarding the scoring (team score), if the individual scores were abolished completely a single point for the team for a succesful capture would suffice.

I would personally also like to see some kind of penalty for teams with many players who choose to pray on teams with few players.
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The cappees should be penalized a point each

Post by JF Sebastian » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:09 am

The capturing team gets happiness for capping.
Those whose flag was captured, the ones who did not defend well, should be penalized one point each.
Their tanks already explode when capped, why not??!!

Of course, this option should be switchable by admins on a day/hour when the teems are extreeeemly unbalanced, then switched back on.

This would have improved cosmos's wonderful maps on hepcat (sad and depressed it's gone).

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Post by Saber » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:20 pm

i think it would be better if its the opposite. when there is a CTF, the team with the captured flag should lose points. it would be harder to CTF

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Post by The Knights Who Say Ni » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:36 pm

nah i think it shouldnt be like that you should get at leats 1 point extra but i think that you should have been carrying it for at least 20 to get the points but if you capture it before then then you still get the CTF but not the points

Or you could have it so that for every 10 or 20 seconds you have it you get 1 point and it counts up so the player with the flag would what to hold it giving the opposing team more time to get the flag capturer and it would then have the require ment for more skill for the capturer
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Post by Ice Wewe » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:56 pm

Idea:

Everyone on the team that touched the opposing teams flag (with a limit, perhaps 4) when it gets capped, will get points.


Another incentive:

Have the person/persons who capped the flag get the points from the opposing tanks that were distroyed when the flag was captured.

Just some ideas from a rambling madman.

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