Stop jumping!

Questions and comments on tactics and playstyles
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fa3der
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Stop jumping!

Post by fa3der » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:44 pm

Just for new players and other bad players(I want competition!)

*When you jump, you become a VERY easy kill*

1-When possible, dodge the bullets instead of jumping.

2-Sometimes people jump when bullets aren't even close to them. Try to watch where the bullets go before jumping

3-If you MUST jump (happens), try to jump either over the tank that is fireing at you or jump on a building.

4-Practice dodging in PillBoxes

5-When it's available, use an Agility flag, it's so useful :P

Hope this help new and old bad players :)
bring it on... lol

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Post by Datalore » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:30 pm

Agility is fun to jump across the map with. You pretty much get out of range if you aim right :P

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Post by H0ley » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:05 am

I'm an impulsive jumper. I cant help it half the time. However, I still tend to do pretty well on the Passion and Nativity in Black maps.

My trick? When I jump, I turn my tank towards the person that was shooting at me. This way when they try to jump kill me, I can fire back accordingly. At the passion, I usually like to jump on a building or over the pyramid for protection in combination to my trick. Controlling your jumps is tough and takes practice. When you're a newbie, you kind of dont have much of a chance, either jump or get shot.

Another trick, make the bullet shots bigger on your radar in the Options->GUI. This isnt really a trick but a lot of people dont use the wonderful options in the GUI options.
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CannonBallGuy
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:23 pm

I deliberately set shots on radar as small as possible, this way I don't have to drive 3 miles across a map just to be sure I'm out of the path of a bullet.
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Post by Hannibal » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:32 pm

H0ley wrote:Another trick, make the bullet shots bigger on your radar in the Options->GUI.
CannonBallGuy wrote:I deliberately set shots on radar as small as possible, this way I don't have to drive 3 miles across a map just to be sure I'm out of the path of a bullet.
H0ley, that may work, but if they are too big, then you have to move probably more than you have to and the radar screen gets crowded.
CBG, then you wont move as much, and are more likely to get shot.

dilemma?

I set mine somewhere in between, line leading to show me where the bullet is going.
Games don't make people violent, lag does.
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Post by H0ley » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:20 am

Ha, I didnt say set it to the largest settings. I've got mine somewhere in between, but still larger than the default. Bigger bullets also let me see the altitude of the bullets more clearly. It comes handy when I'm doing my thing with the wings.
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Post by L4m3r » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:03 am

I don't use the "lines" bit for the radar, I just make the dots bigger. works wonders.
Optimism is just a milder alternative to denial.

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:46 pm

Hannibal wrote:
H0ley wrote:Another trick, make the bullet shots bigger on your radar in the Options->GUI.
CannonBallGuy wrote:I deliberately set shots on radar as small as possible, this way I don't have to drive 3 miles across a map just to be sure I'm out of the path of a bullet.
H0ley, that may work, but if they are too big, then you have to move probably more than you have to and the radar screen gets crowded.
CBG, then you wont move as much, and are more likely to get shot.

dilemma?

I set mine somewhere in between, line leading to show me where the bullet is going.
No dilemma.
Just learn to dodge, it's simple.
There is no trick to it, but a good dodger only moves as much as they have to.
I'm gonna regret saying this, but I improved my dodging using Mikkel's "wiggling around the bullet" trick. Don't turn 90º to a shot, it makes you a bigger target and you can't shoot back.
Just simply wriggle around and in between bullets, it's easy if you keep moving and watch radar closely.
This is why I find it vital to have small bullets. I also have long leading lines so I can more easily anticipate where shots are headed, especially useful when I have low FPS...
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Post by Saturos » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:50 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:Don't turn 90º to a shot, it makes you a bigger target
Actually I dont think this is true... it sounds logical since that would imitate the tank-shape but from Chestal's bzlogview I tend to believe that the hitzone is a circle. And if that is true it really makes no difference if you face the enemy or are turned to the side.
Read the paragraph that is aligned left to the first image... http://bzflag.org/wiki/BzflagAndLag

It would be cool to have a dev-comment on this. :)

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:12 pm

I didn't think bzflag tanks had circular hit zones, and either way, I seem to get hit easier side-on... :(
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Post by The Red Baron » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:19 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:I didn't think bzflag tanks had circular hit zones, and either way, I seem to get hit easier side-on... :(
You are right Don't turn your tank 90 degrees to another tank. Not because your tank is bigger (its not, your tank is eliptical, not quite a perfect circle IIRC), but for alot, lot, lot more important reasons. Think about it :)
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Post by Spazzy McGee » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:57 pm

i have the lines on shots on my radar set to leading, so i can see precisely where they will hit before they hit.
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:40 pm

It's confirmed, tank hit zones are circular, however, I always manage to fit between smaller gaps when facing the source of the bullets as opposed to being turned 90º. I don't know how, but that's the truth - and I'm not the only one.

Spazzy: Yep, that's the idea.
I laughed my head off when I saw that the shot lines were set to lagging by default. Totally useless! :wink:
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Merry Christmas!

"Look, if I don't buy booze for the kids, I don't get any incriminating pictures to show to their parents, my business goes down the sink, my girlfriend leaves me and the baby goes on ebay. So help me search..."

"go Play With Toys urself in a dark alley u donkey ******" - Lt-Kirby2007

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Post by The Red Baron » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:22 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:It's confirmed, tank hit zones are circular, however, I always manage to fit between smaller gaps when facing the source of the bullets as opposed to being turned 90º. I don't know how, but that's the truth - and I'm not the only one.

Spazzy: Yep, that's the idea.
I laughed my head off when I saw that the shot lines were set to lagging by default. Totally useless! :wink:
Its true, its easier to fit between bullets, when you are not facing your opponent, for other reasons.

Yes, I had to fight the devs for the lagging/leading option on the GUI menu. Initially, when bullet lines on radar first came out, it was defaulted to the line leading. Then some one changed it to the lines leading. I pitched a fit, and now we have an option.
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Post by TD-Linux » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:36 pm

Yes, you are just as easy of a shot no matter what direction you are facing. The shot detection uses a sphere. Steamroller uses an eclipse. Because the tank's shortest dimension is it's height, it's easier than it seems to hit accurately vertically.

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Post by gilly » Mon May 22, 2006 8:50 am

My radar uses shots of size 4, no lines. I can dodge quite well even if the bullets are already close, so this works for me.

Sometimes, however, I find it difficult to dodge long range shots, but that's pretty rare.

For dodging:

- turn as little as possible. (You have to turn more when opponent gets closer)
  • NOTE: there's a certain line you got to turn a lot more, that's
    when the opponent has a possibility of double shot which isn't
    possible to dodge, then you got to be turned enough, so that
    you can run in 90 degree angle.
    The double shot range vanishes when the opponent is too
    close, because then he has to be too afraid of not hitting
    when shooting doubles, and he'll start shooting singles.
- never let your opponent too close, you're dead then if he keeps sparing his second bullet (speaking of ducati)

For shooting:
  • a) pretend your opponents moves (can be hard at times)
    b) if that didn't work, try to shoot so that it would be hardest to dodge
- get closer, but be prepared to go backwards if you can't hit him
  • NOTE: Sometimes bravery is good, especially if the other guy is a coward and doesn't turn to face you.

    NOTE2: Bravery isn't useful when the other guys ricochets you
    out when you rush in, be aware of the walls.
- shoot multiple paths probably (one wall, one straight)

Well... these are just some ideas... (Uh, I hope I didn't say
anything twice)

- gilly

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Post by macsforme » Mon May 22, 2006 11:44 am

Another important note is that, while you CAN move left and right faster when you are completely parallel to your opponent, you lose valuable time turning back to shoot at him. Only turn as much as you need to to avoid the shot (although by all means DO TURN as far as you need to, or you will be shot ;) ).

Here's a good way to practice. Start a bzflag server with these options:

Code: Select all

bzfs -pf -h -mp 0,4,20,0,0,0 -ms 5 +r -f bad -f good -sa -a 0 0 -tk -density 0 -worldsize 200 -set _explodeTime 
And then start a client with these options:

Code: Select all

bzflag -solo 9 -team red student@localhost:5154
This will make a local server with 6 green bots, 3 red bots, and yourself (on the red team). There are no buildings, no teleporters, and no jumping. This is VERY good for learning how to dodge in precise movements.[/code]

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Post by MonsterMan++ » Tue May 23, 2006 5:37 am

When I can I teach newbies to dodgee and do good jumps if they have to, for instance if they're on a populated server and doing really badly I ask them if they want to go on a less-populated server. 8)
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Post by H0ley » Tue May 23, 2006 6:29 am

On a less popular server, its easier to jump because the consequences of jumping are much less severe, in most but not all cases. At least for me it was. I'm still a compulsive jumper thanks to mofo. :wink:
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Post by MonsterMan++ » Wed May 24, 2006 3:55 am

Larger bullets are useful when you're charging at Lasermania because of all the stealths around the map that could wait for you and shoot you, so if you don't want to get larger radar bullets here's a tip on Lasermania when charging: 1: Have a team mate in front of you so you see when he gets shot and then it's obvious where the stealth is.
2: JUST PUT THE BULLET SIZE UP!!!! :evil:
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Wed May 24, 2006 11:43 am

How does it help to have a larger bullet size?
Do you have poor eyesight? You can't see small bullets?
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Post by joevano » Wed May 24, 2006 12:07 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:How does it help to have a larger bullet size?
Do you have poor eyesight? You can't see small bullets?
Actually, I cannot see the bullets very well and I do not have poor eyesight. I run at 1600x1200 (on my desktop) and 1920x1200 on my laptop and the bullets are no bigger than a single pixel. When they move they can be quite faint ...

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Post by gilly » Wed May 24, 2006 12:49 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote: How does it help to have a larger bullet size?
Do you have poor eyesight? You can't see small bullets?
I agree with donny_baker. Having a bit bigger bullets don't make your eyes tired and you'll be sure you spotted every single bullet. :) I even use 1280x1024 resolution when I play.

And no, it doesn't make dodging harder, because they are still so small that they hit when they seem to hit... or if they don't you shouldn't be so risky... (or turn the skinny tank cheat off, if you own one of those :P)

And, in 1vs1 situations I rarely use radar anyways when facing the other tank. Dodging by looking in the main screen is easier and more accurate. Ricos are a different tale of course. :D

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Wed May 24, 2006 2:12 pm

I can see shots on radar perfectly fine when they are set to the smallest setting - 12" screen, 1024x768. Though I do have them set on either the 2nd or 3rd size. :P
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Post by Tanner » Wed May 24, 2006 11:18 pm

I didn't know the bullets were on radar 'till I bumped up the size after a few weeks :D

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