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Well I have no choice on a laptop.

I have tab as my jump, Q as my fire, W as drop flag, and A as identity.

The Red Baron wrote:there is no argument - Mouse is superior than Keyboard.

The debate has be hashed before, mouse always wins.

Hmm, we should have a Mouse vs. Keyboard Tourny!

Tropican8 wrote:Hmm, we should have a Mouse vs. Keyboard Tourny!

agreed!

Mouse would win. I know that. I can tell you right now. I think most of the veterans use mouse. Am I wrong?

meh.
I (now) use both. Before it was keyboard, but since then, i've decided to try and use my nice mouse with bzflag. so far, i'm not used to it, but its coming along.

A Vicious Muffin wrote:Mouse would win. I know that. I can tell you right now. I think most of the veterans use mouse. Am I wrong?

You can't know that.
Too much depends on what players are available to play, when, where, for how long, what map, how many shots, jumping?, rico?, what flags?...
If there are teams, that just makes it a whole lot more complicated.

Wow, I can't imagine that the current poll results (which show's roughly 5:3) are representative yet. For years, the keyboarders vs mouse players have been outnumbered at least 10:1 in favor of mouse (at least for dedicated "good" players). I could count the number of good ducati-style keyboarders on one hand.

Personally, I think keyboard actually takes a little more skill and is coincidentally slightly harder to control, but as that skill hones you become just as good as the other players and it encourages more careful shot control. Either way, neither device has significantly inherint advantages over the other, imho -- it's just a tradeoff.

and .. That said, keyboard is the only way to drive for me.

/me will pwn all mouse players j/k =just kidding

Well, Seeing you guys are merely stating your opinions and stopping, I'd think you'd want to add a bit more to the post. This is a forum by the way, not IRC, Ex:

cool thnx

Well, Anyways, On to my opinion.
I prefer mouse. My reasons being

1. You can move at different speeds. Explantion:With the keyboard, normally, you are forced to move at one speed all the time. *Note "Normally"*

2.You can do any of the following things.
a:move
b:fire [i wouldn't know what to do if tanks couldn't fire at each other]
c:spawn [it'd be real awkward if you died and your dead for like 15 minutes.]
d:identify [I could live with out it, but it helps a lot in No-Radar maps]
e:drop flags: [i don't really use this often, and i get quite mad when i do it accidentaly, {Be sure to lock up your souls during these times }

Remember, this is not IRC, (Internet Relay Chat) *I think* (Gulps)

Happy Tanking. And Btw, If you MUST add more to your opinion, try using the edit feature, it works real nice, congrats devs.

I use mouse

Davy Jones wrote:I prefer mouse. My reasons being

1. You can move at different speeds. Explantion:With the keyboard, normally, you are forced to move at one speed all the time. *Note "Normally"*

I beg to disagree. I use the "Slow Keyboard Motion" key quite regularly in very "normal" circumstances. And for the rest of the time, why would anyone want to go slower than full speed? Very rarely.

The advantage of the mouse, as I see it, is it allows you very precise control over velocity and turning speeds, and allows you to have different ratios of each. For instance, you can back up at 1/4 speed, and turn at full speed at the same time (which can be useful for dodging). With the keyboard, the 'A' key (or whatever you have it configured to) slows down your tank speed and your turning speed at the same time.

All in all, I don't think it matters all that much. Like someone said earlier in the thread, you get used to whatever you use, and it really doesn't matter. Personally I use the keyboard, because I've almost always had laptops, which dont' always have a mouse connected.

Constitution wrote:

Davy Jones wrote:I prefer mouse. My reasons being

1. You can move at different speeds. Explantion:With the keyboard, normally, you are forced to move at one speed all the time. *Note "Normally"*

I beg to disagree. I use the "Slow Keyboard Motion" key quite regularly in very "normal" circumstances. And for the rest of the time, why would anyone want to go slower than full speed? Very rarely.

The advantage of the mouse, as I see it, is it allows you very precise control over velocity and turning speeds, and allows you to have different ratios of each. For instance, you can back up at 1/4 speed, and turn at full speed at the same time (which can be useful for dodging). With the keyboard, the 'A' key (or whatever you have it configured to) slows down your tank speed and your turning speed at the same time.

All in all, I don't think it matters all that much. Like someone said earlier in the thread, you get used to whatever you use, and it really doesn't matter. Personally I use the keyboard, because I've almost always had laptops, which dont' always have a mouse connected.

Sorry About your *little laptop*

Anyways, I see your point, and you defined more clearly what i meant to say/write Thank You for pointing that out.

The keyboard is a little harder to use as you have to move your hands and have quick reflexes/hands.

Davy Jones wrote:2.You can do any of the following things.
a:move
b:fire [i wouldn't know what to do if tanks couldn't fire at each other]
c:spawn [it'd be real awkward if you died and your dead for like 15 minutes.]
d:identify [I could live with out it, but it helps a lot in No-Radar maps]
e:drop flags: [i don't really use this often, and i get quite mad when i do it accidentaly, {Be sure to lock up your souls during these times }

Believe it or not, we keyboard users manage to do all that without a mouse.
Crazy, eh?

CannonBallGuy wrote:

Davy Jones wrote:2.You can do any of the following things.
a:move
b:fire [i wouldn't know what to do if tanks couldn't fire at each other]
c:spawn [it'd be real awkward if you died and your dead for like 15 minutes.]
d:identify [I could live with out it, but it helps a lot in No-Radar maps]
e:drop flags: [i don't really use this often, and i get quite mad when i do it accidentaly, {Be sure to lock up your souls during these times }

Believe it or not, we keyboard users manage to do all that without a mouse.
Crazy, eh?

That doesn't count CBG, remember? you're special, in a wierd sort of way

Definitely mouse for me. Trying to do a strafe and jump is hard enough even with the fine control available to a mouse - it's going to be much harder with a keyboard.

That said, there are some maps where the keyboard can do well, such as pillbox, where changing direction instantly can help you dodge shots. With a mouse, you have to pull the pointer over, which takes a fraction of a second longer.

I still play with mouse all the time though even on those sorts of maps, and I think I do quite well.

I was going to point that out, but you beat me to it, the enemy. I do use keyboard on some maps, mostly skill maps where you can't jump and pillbox (where you can jump in FFA*i think*) It helps because you can poparound a corner shoot and go back in an instant, bu the mouse takes longer,

There is a way to configure (change) you mouse setting. For mac

1.Go to the system preferences, first, open the apple menu and its right there. go to "keyboard and mouse" and go to mouse tracking speed, and put it on its highest setting, now you can move quicker (not faster) and it's almost as good as keyboard control. I don't use that too much because, i don't like to go through all the extra trouble

truly u can use both for differentn play styles GU i use mouse and Ducati i use keyboard.But normally keyboard

You can strafe in bzflag now? Wow, didn't know that.

Davy Jones wrote:I was going to point that out, but you beat me to it, the enemy. I do use keyboard on some maps, mostly skill maps where you can't jump and pillbox (where you can jump in FFA*i think*) It helps because you can poparound a corner shoot and go back in an instant, bu the mouse takes longer,

There is a way to configure (change) you mouse setting. For mac

1.Go to the system preferences, first, open the apple menu and its right there. go to "keyboard and mouse" and go to mouse tracking speed, and put it on its highest setting, now you can move quicker (not faster) and it's almost as good as keyboard control. I don't use that too much because, i don't like to go through all the extra trouble

You're on the right track, but you got there with the wrong logic. trying to make the mouse as good as the keyboard. you need the reverse

Increasing your speed, will reduce your responce time, but not make it as agood as keyboard. What you want is your keyboard responding as fast as your mouse. believe me.

As far as coming around a corner - the keyboard simplifies the process, thats all, its not faster I can sneak shots around a corner, due to the articulate precision that mouse gives, that keyboard user's can't even dream of I dont' have to come flying around a corner all the time


Yes I understand, that people are different, one system will work better, than another for certain individual. But I can safely say, that universally, in BZ, mouse is better than keyboard. I have personally convinced a few people to switch from keyboard to mouse. Yes, they needed perseverance to make the transition, but they agree. Mouse is better

im getting use 2 using both

I don't know what all this is about lack of precision with a keyboard.
For example, I can jump at full angVel, half angVel (either by using the Half-Speed key, or just by timing my jump and turn key presses correctly) and quarter angVel (by using both the half-speed key and good timing). If you need more precision than that, you're probably often caught waiting for your coffee to cool to a certain nanodegree.

CannonBallGuy wrote:I don't know what all this is about lack of precision with a keyboard.
For example, I can jump at full angVel, half angVel (either by using the Half-Speed key, or just by timing my jump and turn key presses correctly) and quarter angVel (by using both the half-speed key and good timing). If you need more precision than that, you're probably often caught waiting for your coffee to cool to a certain nanodegree.

/me goes off to cool his coffee to a certain nanodegree

CannonBallGuy wrote:You can strafe in bzflag now? Wow, didn't know that.

You know what I mean . Turning while jumping so you can shoot someone perched on top of a block. I've occasionally had to play bzflag with a keyboard. Maybe it was just that I would need more practice, but getting the angvel of the turn right for such a jump was very difficult - particularly since you also have to make it unclear to the victim exactly when and where you'll be jumping.

Constitution wrote:I beg to disagree. I use the "Slow Keyboard Motion" key quite regularly in very "normal" circumstances. And for the rest of the time, why would anyone want to go slower than full speed? Very rarely.
... snip ...

Hopefully not diverging too far off the topic, I'm perplexed by this statement. I've not heard of anyone useing the slow keyboard motion key for actual "normal" game play *ever* before this (it was "mostly" added for developmental testing and never removed).

In fact, I'm highly considering removing the key binding for the next major release or if anything, binding it to a key other than 'a' by default given all the problems it causes. Players frequently accidentally hit the 'a' key without noticing (usually while trying to hit tab or 'z' or something "over there") and end up baffled how to get out of the molasses mode. They usually end up restarting the client, unfortunately, since it also acts/looks/feels like the game just suddenly slows down on you like it could be a bug.

CannonBallGuy wrote:I don't know what all this is about lack of precision with a keyboard.
For example, I can jump at full angVel, half angVel (either by using the Half-Speed key, or just by timing my jump and turn key presses correctly) and quarter angVel (by using both the half-speed key and good timing). If you need more precision than that, you're probably often caught waiting for your coffee to cool to a certain nanodegree.

aiming cbg, aiming lining up a shot. with keyboard its twitch left, oops, twitch right, darn, turn on slow mode, twitch left again, ah, perfect, now fire.

and with jumps, the same. You said it yourself - "good timing" yea, You can time it perfectly, but how long will it take you? Will it be quicker than mouse? Nope