Mouse Vs. Keyboard

Questions and comments on tactics and playstyles

Which Do You Prefer Mouse Or Keyboard?

Mouse
78
61%
Keyboard
50
39%
 
Total votes: 128

User avatar
learner
General
General
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 2:06 am
Location: Maryland
Contact:

you too?

Post by learner » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:27 am

interesting, baron.. now i'm really curious how many folks actually use that key. I'm a faithful keyboarder and would never use slow mode to get better aim. it'd.. take too long. then again, my aim isn't too horrible either.. (nor is yours, which futher confuses me that you'd use the key) It takes a while to hone, but you can get that twitch timing down so that you don't have to "correct" for it -- so you get it right the first time. Maybe a good poll in order..

User avatar
Tropican8
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: As close to the grove as you can get

Post by Tropican8 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:55 am

learner wrote:
Constitution wrote:I beg to disagree. I use the "Slow Keyboard Motion" key quite regularly in very "normal" circumstances. And for the rest of the time, why would anyone want to go slower than full speed? Very rarely.
... snip ...
Hopefully not diverging too far off the topic, I'm perplexed by this statement. I've not heard of anyone useing the slow keyboard motion key for actual "normal" game play *ever* before this (it was "mostly" added for developmental testing and never removed).

In fact, I'm highly considering removing the key binding for the next major release or if anything, binding it to a key other than 'a' by default given all the problems it causes. Players frequently accidentally hit the 'a' key without noticing (usually while trying to hit tab or 'z' or something "over there") and end up baffled how to get out of the molasses mode. They usually end up restarting the client, unfortunately, since it also acts/looks/feels like the game just suddenly slows down on you like it could be a bug.
On servers that require jumping onto narrow platforms, the slow key is a must (so you don't overshoot your target). I usually can't "climb" a series of steps without it. I might just not be very coordinated though ;-)

User avatar
macsforme
General
General
Posts: 2033
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:43 am

Post by macsforme » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:51 am

learner wrote:
Constitution wrote:I beg to disagree. I use the "Slow Keyboard Motion" key quite regularly in very "normal" circumstances. And for the rest of the time, why would anyone want to go slower than full speed? Very rarely.
... snip ...
Hopefully not diverging too far off the topic, I'm perplexed by this statement. I've not heard of anyone useing the slow keyboard motion key for actual "normal" game play *ever* before this (it was "mostly" added for developmental testing and never removed).

In fact, I'm highly considering removing the key binding for the next major release or if anything, binding it to a key other than 'a' by default given all the problems it causes. Players frequently accidentally hit the 'a' key without noticing (usually while trying to hit tab or 'z' or something "over there") and end up baffled how to get out of the molasses mode. They usually end up restarting the client, unfortunately, since it also acts/looks/feels like the game just suddenly slows down on you like it could be a bug.
Perhaps "normal" wasn't the right word... I was trying to make a counterpoint to someone's statement that you can't move at lower-than-highest speed on a keyboard under "normal" conditions. The vast majority of the time I drive at regular speed, of course. However, I do use the slow keyboard motion key under "normal" conditions in several scenarios. Most of the time I just want to jump onto a box that's right in front of me, so I do a slow-motion jump rather than backing up all the way for a full-speed jump.

User avatar
The Red Baron
Sergeant First Class
Sergeant First Class
Posts: 987
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:21 am
Contact:

Re: you too?

Post by The Red Baron » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:24 pm

learner wrote:interesting, baron.. now i'm really curious how many folks actually use that key. I'm a faithful keyboarder and would never use slow mode to get better aim. it'd.. take too long. then again, my aim isn't too horrible either.. (nor is yours, which futher confuses me that you'd use the key) It takes a while to hone, but you can get that twitch timing down so that you don't have to "correct" for it -- so you get it right the first time. Maybe a good poll in order..
Wait learner, I do not use keyboard. :) I think you are confusing me. Yes I have played with keyboard, that was to understand how the keyboard reacts, and how my opponents using keyboard play. The simplicity of the keyboard has a few advantages in ducati. A big plus, is doing the merry-go-round with your opponent. its simple, yet also very restrictive. Simply hold down the left (or right key) + the forward (or reverse key). and then, to keep the turn righter, one must simply varient the reverse + forward key. You get the picture.

This is what I use - and have used, since the first generation trackballs -
Image


Learner - a more accurate depiction of my aiming process, from a previous post, would be, play on a pillbox map, with a keyboard, and try to line up a shot, into the opposing teams base. Try it from all angles. Some angles you have a wider window of opportunity, some you do not. Its much harder to shoot into the base, with a keyboard, then a mouse. not impossible. but the time it takes to aim or manuever is longer than what it would take a mouse user.


is the slow motion used, say, in ducati? I would say never. IIRC the only time slow motion was introduced, was with jumping, when map makers started making complex jumping maps, and annoyingly small jump platforms. keyboarders couldn't make the jumps. Back then, they had nothing to control their speed with, it was WOT or nothing. There was debate of, adding a small visible amount of acceleration to the keyboard, so they could time, and perform the jumps, but that was struck down, and instead, we have A - half speed. I do not use the key. I HAVE used the key, but that was when I was testing out keyboard. :)
Beware! I'm going to clone myself and spread those clones all over the world!

User avatar
Saturos
Art Master General
Art Master General
Posts: 1111
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:48 pm
Location: Berlin/Germany
Contact:

Re: you too?

Post by Saturos » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:18 pm

The Red Baron wrote:Image
I've always wondered about that setup... how do you use the trackball? It is for driving the tank? That would mean you arent moving your wrist at all. Or is it for shooting like most other players have mapped shooting to the mousewheel? But then the trackball wouldnt be much different to a normal mouse.
Shed some light into that please. ;)

User avatar
The Red Baron
Sergeant First Class
Sergeant First Class
Posts: 987
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:21 am
Contact:

Post by The Red Baron » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:38 pm

my mousewheel controls my radar. not shooting. It groups the shots way to closely. And, No moving of my wrist at all. Just the thumb. I use the mouse button for shooting, along with qwe. (BTW - some consider this info i'm giving confidential) ;)

Yes, I drive the tank with the trackball. Again, I don't have shooting mapped to the mousewheel - i don't like it.
Beware! I'm going to clone myself and spread those clones all over the world!

User avatar
the enemy
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:18 am
Location: UK

Post by the enemy » Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:11 pm

Mousewheel for radar sounds a great idea. I'm always fiddling my radar with 1,2,3. And I can see the config file runes for how do to it - the default config does it already if you hold down shift.

Ta for that.

User avatar
Davy Jones
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:39 am
Location: Davy Jone's Locker

Post by Davy Jones » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:15 pm

Just A little question here...When you press Shift when trying to set the input commands for keyboard, it doesn't register that you pressed shift, while when you press it during gameplay while pressing different keys, some weird effects go on my radar, any light on this?
Owner @ The Twin Towers
Admin @ The Two Boxes
Cop @ Army Of One
Image
Image

User avatar
CannonBallGuy
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 2083
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:31 am
Contact:

Post by CannonBallGuy » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:03 pm

Ok, a few things:

1. Yes, I should think a lot of keyboard players do use 'a', not just for testing/debugging/whatever it was originally intended for. Please keep the function in, though you can map it to any key you like, I'll just change it anyway.

2. TheRedBaron: No offence, but you're talking about something you don't truly understand. You say you "tried keyboard". Is that for a period of 6 months or more? I can aim perfectly fine with my keys, I don't have to twitch back and forth, not even when aiming into a pillbox base - though I have occasionally used my binos if I am near the centre of the map, heading towards the enemy base right after they were capped - it is safe to do so, after-all, and from that sort of angle, most of the gaps are just one or two pixels thick - I doubt a mouse player can instantly aim directly at anything that small without slight readjustments.

3. As for the "Good Timing" on jumps...
The Red Baron wrote: You can time it perfectly, but how long will it take you?
No time at all, I am talking about hitting the forward/backward key + the left/right key + the jump key all at almost exactly the same time. It is almost instantaneous, the "timing" here is a matter of nanoseconds. I doubt that is any slower than the amount of time it would take a mouse player to accelerate and jump.
Image

Merry Christmas!

"Look, if I don't buy booze for the kids, I don't get any incriminating pictures to show to their parents, my business goes down the sink, my girlfriend leaves me and the baby goes on ebay. So help me search..."

"go Play With Toys urself in a dark alley u donkey ******" - Lt-Kirby2007

User avatar
The Red Baron
Sergeant First Class
Sergeant First Class
Posts: 987
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:21 am
Contact:

Post by The Red Baron » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:13 pm

CBG - No offense taken - you know I don't mind being disagreed with.

have I played for a period of 6 months on keyboard? no. And hate to tote this - but I can somewhat seamlessly adjust and play decently, because I understand the mechanics of the game.

Now, I do not have facts, graphs, tables, numbers, etc etc etc. Except personal experience and an unshaken reality that most of your mouse players are quite better than keyboard players.

why is that?

and ya, I still disagree with you on the timing - it takes longer ;)
Beware! I'm going to clone myself and spread those clones all over the world!

User avatar
Tedius
Sergeant First Class
Sergeant First Class
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:10 pm
Contact:

Post by Tedius » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:41 am

/me is a devoted keyboard player.

For a while I had an inferiority complex thinking that only the mouse was for serious players, and I usually work with it a little when I'm in Ducati-like servers.

However, there are servers in which I think keyboard play is indispensable... those that require binoculars often, a reliance on the radar, long range sniping, and/or a lot of straight forward motion. This is why I'm lousy in servers like Ducati, but have halfway decent scores in places like The Two Tanks, Loumans LaserMania, and definitely Inferno's Sniper Haven.

I would gladly take on any mouse player in Sniper Haven. Name the time and place :)
Here is my key mapping:

jump: space
fire: z
binoculars: x
drop flag: a
slow movement: q
lock/identify: tab

User avatar
Triumph of the Soul
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:32 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Triumph of the Soul » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:47 am

When I first posted here I misunderstood what using the mouse meant. What I do is I use both the mouse and the keyboard:

Right Hand:

Fire: Left Mouse Button
Jump: Middle Mouse Button
Identify/Spawn: Right Mouse Button

Left Hand:

Jump: Tab
Toggle Scores: S
Drop Flag: Space
Binoculars: B (Yes I know it's a bit of a reach, but it is feasible).
Image
Creator @: Duck or Die, Duck or Die CTF, Fuel Stack, Guernica, Normal, Frayed

User avatar
Tropican8
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: As close to the grove as you can get

Post by Tropican8 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:10 am

A Distraction wrote:When I first posted here I misunderstood what using the mouse meant. What I do is I use both the mouse and the keyboard:

Right Hand:

Fire: Left Mouse Button
Jump: Middle Mouse Button
Identify/Spawn: Right Mouse Button

Left Hand:

Jump: Tab
Toggle Scores: S
Drop Flag: Space
Binoculars: B (Yes I know it's a bit of a reach, but it is feasible).
Maybe I'm misunderstanding too, but I think we are talking about what you drive with?

meeba
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: N. Sanity Beach
Contact:

Post by meeba » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:45 am

Like I said, joystick all the way for me.

Forward/backward on Y-axis, turning on Z-rotation. Works great, and it's fast. You have complete control, like a mouse. Plus my coordination is much better with joystick than with a mouse.

But I'm better with keyboard than with mouse anyways. It's great for quick direction changes. Mouse AND joystick make you less agile.

The reason I use a joystick is mostly because it's the most fun to play with.

And that's what a game is for, right? Having fun.

User avatar
Tedius
Sergeant First Class
Sergeant First Class
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:10 pm
Contact:

Post by Tedius » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:16 pm

When I first posted here I misunderstood what using the mouse meant. What I do is I use both the mouse and the keyboard:
Maybe I was unclear.

I use the keyboard for driving and everything. I guess you can access the binoculars as easily either way. However, using the keyboard allows you to play from the radar more easily without having to look back and forth between the mouse box and radar, (I make the radar full size with no opacity in Hepcat) it allows you to go quickly from full speed one way to full speed the other, and you can go straight forward or stand still easily without having to put your mouse in the dead-zone. I have everything right there where I want it so I can use B, chat, taunt, slow motion, hunt, switch off the console etc.. without having to drop or grab my mouse while I'm geno'ing you. :p

or maybe my preference is just due to years of gaming before I had a mouse.

User avatar
The Frog Master
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:29 am
Location: Somewhere in the vicinity of betelgeuse

Post by The Frog Master » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:13 am

Maybe I just have big hands, but I can reach everything on the keyboard,

If I ever use the mouse its for sniper practise.

User avatar
ludachris
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Gone Hunting

Post by ludachris » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:50 pm

MOUSE!
Image
Image
Image
Image

Fetterkey
Private
Private
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:17 am

Post by Fetterkey » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:19 am

I have a laptop touchpad mouse which is obviously no good for BZFlag, so I go keyboard almost all the time.

User avatar
Davy Jones
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:39 am
Location: Davy Jone's Locker

Post by Davy Jones » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:54 am

You could get a mouse and use it, Laptops have USB's last time i checked, so it's not your only option
Owner @ The Twin Towers
Admin @ The Two Boxes
Cop @ Army Of One
Image
Image

User avatar
CannonBallGuy
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 2083
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:31 am
Contact:

Post by CannonBallGuy » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:09 am

I play with my trackpad fairly often, not all that difficult at all.
Image

Merry Christmas!

"Look, if I don't buy booze for the kids, I don't get any incriminating pictures to show to their parents, my business goes down the sink, my girlfriend leaves me and the baby goes on ebay. So help me search..."

"go Play With Toys urself in a dark alley u donkey ******" - Lt-Kirby2007

User avatar
Albino Blacksheep
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Farmer Brown's Pasture
Contact:

Post by Albino Blacksheep » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:32 pm

[quote="anti-spam"]i always think: how do you reach enter so i vote mouse[/quote]
i use both hands, and i can move my left from "enter" to "tab" quickly. I prefer the keyboard. I tend to lose control with the mouse
-Albino Blacksheep

User avatar
whispershadow
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:18 am
Location: I'm a figment of your imagination, where could I be but in your head?

Post by whispershadow » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:28 pm

Keyboard all the way, Its so much more controllable and is easier on the wrist. The a key serves me just fine for speed control.

Also, with the mouse, its really difficult to stop. you have to place your mouse just so.
I am officially a figment of everyone's imagination.

User avatar
Davy Jones
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:39 am
Location: Davy Jone's Locker

Post by Davy Jones » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:48 pm

All you have to do is move it to center of mousebox....its not that hard at all. preactice some with it and you'll get the hang of the mouse
Owner @ The Twin Towers
Admin @ The Two Boxes
Cop @ Army Of One
Image
Image

User avatar
Winny
Grouchy
Grouchy
Posts: 2381
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Ottawa eh?
Contact:

Post by Winny » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:49 am

Left Hand:
Q: Fire
Tab: Jump
A: Always always use identify :)

Right Hand:
Left mouse: Fire
Right mouse: Occasionally jumping
Wheel: Radar

Yeah..I drive with a mouse. Mouse box at the smallest size, good for dodging.

User avatar
khazhyk
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:40 pm
Location: Somewhere over there.
Contact:

Post by khazhyk » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:48 am

left
Tab-jump
1,2,3-radar
space-fire

right
mouse-drive
left click-fire
right click-identify
middle click-drop flag

pretty much like the defaults :P
Image

Post Reply