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i have always used the keyboard.
i can get at most 5 point with mouse
but with keyboard i can usually get 100+

mouse!!!!! its like night and day! you can do everything with the mouse! a good mouse player will always beat a good keyboard player.

I would not be too sure about that piggy. Believe me, there are some quite awesome bzflag players that use the keyboard, not a mouse.

yeah.....i guess....but lets face it! mouse rules!

Mouse for me. I tried to play with the keyboard on my laptop and i can't even turn and fire at the same time.

A Vicious Muffin wrote:I would not be too sure about that piggy. Believe me, there are some quite awesome bzflag players that use the keyboard, not a mouse.

piggy is right.

Both sides of this argument seem to have misconceptions about speed. Both methods turn the tank at about the same speed.

I use the mouse because it is definintly a more instinctual method of movement. However, I figure that the keyboard gives far more accuracy in aiming; when I feel I have reaced the peak of mouse control I will switch to keyboard.

i use keyboard mostly but to get on small ledges and also repeat somthing i said i use mouse

Mouse for me!!

I originally started off using the keyboard, only because i did not know the mouse worked
I always wondered how people could switch between moving at top speed, then suddenly to a real slow speed to jump/ dodge whatever.
Mouse all the way for me! I find i have much better control, I especially notice then difference in the fine turning when using - Mouse + L + scoped and - Keyboard - L - scoped.

- Mouse Fan! Join the Club! -

grumble wrote:Both sides of this argument seem to have misconceptions about speed. Both methods turn the tank at about the same speed.

I use the mouse because it is definintly a more instinctual method of movement. However, I figure that the keyboard gives far more accuracy in aiming; when I feel I have reaced the peak of mouse control I will switch to keyboard.

and then you'll switch right back to mouse.

grumble: is a poor use of terms, that gives the misconception. Neither one does effect the actual velocity at which the tank moves, However, with mouse, one can change directions at a far more rapid rate then keyboarders will ever be able to.

Unless perhaps your Herman Li, and then you shouldn't be playing bz, but playing guitar.

The Red Baron wrote:

grumble wrote:Both sides of this argument seem to have misconceptions about speed. Both methods turn the tank at about the same speed.

I use the mouse because it is definintly a more instinctual method of movement. However, I figure that the keyboard gives far more accuracy in aiming; when I feel I have reaced the peak of mouse control I will switch to keyboard.

and then you'll switch right back to mouse.

grumble: is a poor use of terms, that gives the misconception. Neither one does effect the actual velocity at which the tank moves, However, with mouse, one can change directions at a far more rapid rate then keyboarders will ever be able to.

Unless perhaps your Herman Li, and then you shouldn't be playing bz, but playing guitar.

You think you can drag your mouse across faster than I can press an arrow key? Funny one.

He uses a trackball.

Different styles, different techniques...

Perhaps a more useful question would be how you would play differently against a keyboard player vs a mouse player. I tend to think a keyboard player is better off in long range situations whereas mouse players would rather jump and dance around like a ballerina at close range. >:)

Tedius wrote:Different styles, different techniques...

Perhaps a more useful question would be how you would play differently against a keyboard player vs a mouse player. I tend to think a keyboard player is better off in long range situations whereas mouse players would rather jump and dance around like a ballerina at close range. >:)

again, it varies.

its easier to fit inbetween bullets with a mouse. So, in a long range face to face battle, the mouse player could have ever advantage, provided he can fit between the bullets, without haven't to turn his side to the player. He can then close the distance, or simply shot hold.


But seriously, any way, anyway you cut it, Mouse has all the advantages. and I say that from 9 years of playing bz. Keyboard is just simpler to use. and thats its main disadvantage.

I agree with TRB fully Mouse rocks.

Right. This is a very good discussion point, you can make many arguments here. But I think it is the way people learned how to play BZflag. When I first played BZflag, I played with the mouse. But then my mouse got broken and I had to use keyboard. It felt very weird, but I learned it. And now I play with the keyboard, because it is much easier, I think. But it also depends on what you are doing. Like, for example, when I use laser, I always use slowed keyboard motion, because it is easier to aim at people. But when I use GM, I just have to use the mouse, because I can't see a keyboard lock-on button... You have to use mouse there! When I use Agility, I use mouse, because it kind of gives you the feeling that your tank is moving faster. But overall, I think that you should use both, the keyboard and mouse, because being able to control your tank with both is extremely useful. Tell me what you think of this.

Mouse for me. I've only ever tried using the keyboard a few times, and then it was just for fun. Well, it wasn't actually very fun... Dying all the time.

By the way, dancing like a ballerina takes amazing skill!

I am a long time mouse user, but I started out as a keyboard user. The reason I switched was because I always played on "The Two Castles" in the period of my noobishness. I always had trouble taking the team flag to the cake top with my keyboard. At the time I didn't know about the "A" key fuction, and I thought to myself: "There has got to be an easier way." so I started using the mouse, and it was easier! I have since honed my skills with the mouse. After learning about the "A" key, I have tried going back to using the keyboard to see what all the keyboard users are raving about. I still think mouse is easier to control with.

B.T.W. I have also tried playing with a joystick, and it was a pretty miserable BZExperience.

A Distraction wrote:I am a long time mouse user, but I started out as a keyboard user. The reason I switched was because I always played on "The Two Castles" in the period of my noobishness. I always had trouble taking the team flag to the cake top with my keyboard. At the time I didn't know about the "A" key fuction, and I thought to myself: "There has got to be an easier way." so I started using the mouse, and it was easier! I have since honed my skills with the mouse. After learning about the "A" key, I have tried going back to using the keyboard to see what all the keyboard users are raving about. I still think mouse is easier to control with.

B.T.W. I have also tried playing with a joystick, and it was a pretty miserable BZExperience.

Yes. Much like keyboard or mouse, joystick takes a while to get used to.

I dont like this argument because people say the mouse is much better for dodging and at close range, but the keyboard is better for lond range.

It all really depends on how long you have used the keyboard/mouse for.
I always have and always will use the Keyboard as i can dodge at close range and snipe from long range.

With the mouse i can die 20 time without killing anyone, but witht the keyboard i can kill 20 or so people with out dying.

The mouse is just as good as the keyboard neither is better it is just the skill of the player that counts.

plokijuy wrote:I dont like this argument because people say the mouse is much better for dodging and at close range, but the keyboard is better for lond range.

It all really depends on how long you have used the keyboard/mouse for.
I always have and always will use the Keyboard as i can dodge at close range and snipe from long range.

With the mouse i can die 20 time without killing anyone, but witht the keyboard i can kill 20 or so people with out dying.

The mouse is just as good as the keyboard neither is better it is just the skill of the player that counts.

Thats just wrong on so many levels... It really is.

I have seen countless many GOOD keyboard players, switch over to mouse, have the patience to master it, and break the keyboard habit, and swear that they will never go back to keyboard, and that mouse is far superior than keyboard.

Face it, Mouse is better than keyboard. I"m not saying you can't be a good player with keyboard, But you'll never tap the full potential and capabilities of Bzflag, if you stay with keyboard.

I've used the mouse for 9 years. And experimented heavily with the keyboard. I'm not throwing up smoke screens or talking blindly.

The Red Baron wrote:

plokijuy wrote:I dont like this argument because people say the mouse is much better for dodging and at close range, but the keyboard is better for lond range.

It all really depends on how long you have used the keyboard/mouse for.
I always have and always will use the Keyboard as i can dodge at close range and snipe from long range.

With the mouse i can die 20 time without killing anyone, but witht the keyboard i can kill 20 or so people with out dying.

The mouse is just as good as the keyboard neither is better it is just the skill of the player that counts.

Thats just wrong on so many levels... It really is.

I have seen countless many GOOD keyboard players, switch over to mouse, have the patience to master it, and break the keyboard habit, and swear that they will never go back to keyboard, and that mouse is far superior than keyboard.

Face it, Mouse is better than keyboard. I"m not saying you can't be a good player with keyboard, But you'll never tap the full potential and capabilities of Bzflag, if you stay with keyboard.

I've used the mouse for 9 years. And experimented heavily with the keyboard. I'm not throwing up smoke screens or talking blindly.

We've always got along, haven't we, TRB? You're one of the few players I never really fell out with at all.
But this last post of yours stinks of arrogance and boasting.
Frankly, your posts in this thread have shocked me.

As said before, the player's skill and ability with whatever input method they chose is what is important here, not what that input method is.
Unless you have conclusive proof that no keyboard player could ever beat the best mouse player, at every conceivable playing style, map, lag, etc, you really are just talking out of the wrong end.

You guys are all fools! The NES Power Glove is the ultimate controller! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

CannonBallGuy wrote:

The Red Baron wrote:

plokijuy wrote:I dont like this argument because people say the mouse is much better for dodging and at close range, but the keyboard is better for lond range.

It all really depends on how long you have used the keyboard/mouse for.
I always have and always will use the Keyboard as i can dodge at close range and snipe from long range.

With the mouse i can die 20 time without killing anyone, but with the keyboard i can kill 20 or so people with out dying.

The mouse is just as good as the keyboard neither is better it is just the skill of the player that counts.

Thats just wrong on so many levels... It really is.

I have seen countless many GOOD keyboard players, switch over to mouse, have the patience to master it, and break the keyboard habit, and swear that they will never go back to keyboard, and that mouse is far superior than keyboard.

Face it, Mouse is better than keyboard. I"m not saying you can't be a good player with keyboard, But you'll never tap the full potential and capabilities of Bzflag, if you stay with keyboard.

I've used the mouse for 9 years. And experimented heavily with the keyboard. I'm not throwing up smoke screens or talking blindly.

We've always got along, haven't we, TRB? You're one of the few players I never really fell out with at all.
But this last post of yours stinks of arrogance and boasting.
Frankly, your posts in this thread have shocked me.

As said before, the player's skill and ability with whatever input method they chose is what is important here, not what that input method is.
Unless you have conclusive proof that no keyboard player could ever beat the best mouse player, at every conceivable playing style, map, lag, etc, you really are just talking out of the wrong end.

I agree with you CBG, As far as I know, We've always gotten along. Thanks to your understanding, patience and a tolerance of my ~larts and pitchforks thrown in your general direction.

Pardon my online appearance. It was not my intention to be arrogant and boasting. You and I do get along, and I hope you understand, that I'm not like that - to be boasting and arrogant.

That said, I believe we can continue in our "getting along," and still agree to disagree on a few subjects. like this one for example.

I think one needs to separate the technical aspects of Mouse VS keyboard, from the Personal Aspects/taste. The case is easily made, that the personal aspect/taste is what matters the most. However, Personal aspects/tastes are rarely worth discussing, or even easily discussed, especially online. in the end, everyone excuses, justifies, rationalizes and ends the discussion by saying something cliche like, "well, its just me." "its how I operate." "Thats how I like to work." Etc etc.

I must ask a pardon, seeing as I have done a poor job in my posts, in outlining the separation of there personal and technical aspects.

And I think you do me an injustice. I'm not speaking of absolute conclusiveness. Life is full of exceptions. I don't have tables, numbers, graphs, charts, etc etc, of hardcore evidence. Just mere observation, gathered over 9 years. I do not like to "tote" or throw about my length of playing this game. But when I make statements, I have to back them up right? or else I could be just making stuff up. I'm letting the reader know the source of my info.

permit me another opportunity to sum up the debate, and aspects of mouse and keyboard.

Mouse - it is more complex - harder to master. it has a greater spectrum of customization, with varying mouse speeds, mouse box sizes, acceleration settings. It has a broader range of motion on a plan. You have a plethora of mice types, and a greater scope of agility, when you start throwing in multiple directional changes. reverse, forward, full right turn, forward twitch, reverse twitch, quick left hand twitch. The rapid forward/reverse tank movements of dodging.

keyboard - Its very simple. 2 speeds. the simplicity of the keyboard, is its defining aspect. All keyboards are "alike" (yes used broadly, please lets not nit-pick minute discrepancies). Forward, reverse, left turn, right turn. Half speed, full speed. mouse box has no affect. the user has no control over the response of the keyboard - like one does with a mouse.

There are different aspects to them.

Now pardon me once again (am I running out of pardons yet?) But to reply to the last part of your post. Pick out a keyboard player, and lets run him/her against Mikkel, Skit or Red Baron2. not on just 1 map. every Map possible.

A Vicious Muffin wrote:Mouse would win. I know that. I can tell you right now. I think most of the veterans use mouse. Am I wrong?

I use the keyboard 100%. I always have. It gives me faster and more accurate control of the tank because less complex hand movements are required.