Does anybody have more info on v2 map syntax?

[tadd]

I have the man page but I don't know what some of the details mean.

What does the texture command do?
How do you use spin? shear?
More examples of these would be good.
Is the intent to make structures out of mesh?

Thanks for any input.

[RPG]

Ahhh...
http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzfs
Click on bzw.

[tadd]

I have the man page but I don't know what some of the details mean.

Ahhh...
http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzfs
Click on bzw.

Please read my initial post. I don't know what some of the terms mean. There are explanations for some of the figures but not most. Will there be more? Is this based on openGL and I can refer to some other source document?

[tadd]

how does one apply an "outside point" in a mesh? Or an inside point? Can I make a mesh that has 4 vertices? What does "not convex" mean when applied to a mesh?

Can you give me an example of how to make a cubical object that is green?

What can I apply PNG files to? Can you give me an example?

Can you give an example of the use of a TextureMatrix in a simple world map?

[RPG]

Oh... must have been speed-reading that post, sry. Cant explain anything to you.

[DTRemenak]

Tadd: if you want examples, try connecting to servers you know have the features you'd like to check out (like trepan's test servers if they're still running), and saving the map from the options menu. Then you can read it at your leisure.

As for your questions...I'm not the expert on this stuff, but:

Meshes must have at least four vertices. A 4-vertex mesh is valid.

Faces need to be convex polygons, meshes have no requirements on concavity. See http://www.mathsyear2000.org/xplusyfile ... _polygons/ if you want to know about convexity/concavity. A snippet: "What is true for...every concave polygon, is that we can always find two points within the shape...such that when we join them together the line passes out of the shape and back in again....For a convex polygon this is never possible."

[JeffM]

basicly nothing with a dent in it.

[tadd]

Thanks for the answer. I appreciate the help

Tadd: if you want examples, try connecting to servers you know have the features you'd like to check out (like trepan's test servers if they're still running), and saving the map from the options menu. Then you can read it at your leisure.

I haven't seen the server list function work yet in 1.11.28. Is it supposed to?

Meshes must have at least four vertices. A 4-vertex mesh is valid.

I have not gotten a mesh with > 3 vertices to work yet. I get the error message I mentioned above.

Faces need to be convex polygons, meshes have no requirements on concavity. See http://www.mathsyear2000.org/xplusyfile ... _polygons/.

Well I know about concave and convex lenses and angles but that didn't seem to apply since I was playing with a plane, i.e. one of the axis was the same for all 4 vertices.

If you know of a server running v2 code, please lay it on me. I'd love to see what others have done.

Thanks very much for the positive answer!
Tadd

[DTRemenak]

I haven't seen the server list function work yet in 1.11.28. Is it supposed to?

There are no more 1.11.28 servers running. Update to at least 1.11.35, it's a different protocol.

I have not gotten a mesh with > 3 vertices to work yet. I get the error message I mentioned above.

I'm probably stupidly missing something here, but what error message are you talking about?

Well I know about concave and convex lenses and angles but that didn't seem to apply since I was playing with a plane, i.e. one of the axis was the same for all 4 vertices.

It's kind of the same idea, but in 2d instead of 3d. for instance if you draw a 3x3 grid, a convex shape could be { (1,0) (0, 1) (2, 1) (1, 2) }... but { (0,0) (1,0) (1,1) (2,1) (0, 2) } would be concave because a line from (1, 0) to (2,1) passes outside of the shape (to the right of (1,1). If you draw that out you'll see the "dip" in the lower-right hand corner, just like you'd see a "dip" in a cross-section of a concave lens. It's impossible to create a concave face with three vertices, but any shape with more than three vertices can be split into two or more shapes with only three vertices each. Some of this stuff is kinda tough to explain without a chalkboard or napkin in front of me, tell me if I screw anything up Also tell me to knock it off if I'm explaining below your level either in content or manner; I don't know what kind of experience you have.

If you know of a server running v2 code, please lay it on me. I'd love to see what others have done.

If you upgrade your client the server list should work. Check the sticky post for 1.11.36 in the Releases and Versions forum, that'll have 1.11.36 for windows and 1.11.37 for mac somewhere in it.

Thanks very much for the positive answer!

Thanks for the interest!

[toaster]

Well I know about concave and convex lenses and angles but that didn't seem to apply since I was playing with a plane, i.e. one of the axis was the same for all 4 vertices.

I ran into that when using the tetra objects. They worked fine so long as they were not planar. The rendering doesn't work for a planar tetrahedron (ie, a planar object of 4 vertices). It remains invisible. Doesn't mean you identified the tetra or mesh incorrectly, just means that the system didn't think it should be visible from outside the plane. Don't know if that got fixed or not. By definition, objects with 3 vertices are planar already, and they render correctly.

Try moving one of your vertices off the plane and see what happens.

[tadd]

I had some preconceived notions that were supported by the manpage and that were not correct. First, not all vertexes need to be mentioned in the vertices line. This is crucial. Now the mesh makes more sense.

This may not be the most efficient but it did the job for me.

Here is a box done in mesh:
#### end color box
### color box coords=0.0,0.0,60.0 size=15.0,15.0,15.0
mesh
vertex -15.00 15.00 60.00
vertex 15.00 15.00 60.00
vertex 15.00 -15.00 60.00
vertex -15.00 -15.00 60.00
vertex -15.00 15.00 75.00
vertex 15.00 15.00 75.00
vertex 15.00 -15.00 75.00
vertex -15.00 -15.00 75.00
face
vertices 0 3 7 4 #west side of cube
diffuse 1 0 0 1
endface
face
vertices 4 5 1 0 #north side of cube
diffuse 0 1 1 1
endface
face
vertices 1 5 6 2 #east side of cube
diffuse 0 1 0 1
endface
face
vertices 6 7 3 2 #south side of cube
diffuse .4 .4 1 1
endface
face
vertices 7 6 5 4 #top of cube
diffuse 0 .6 .6 1
endface
face
vertices 0 1 2 3 # bottom of cube
diffuse .5 .2 .2 1
endface
end
#### end color box

Another interesting and important detail is that the face doesn't apply to both sides of any surface. You need to specify two faces with the vertices in opposite order if you want the face to be visible on both sides. A non specified face is invisible.

Also, while editing by hand, it helps to set the alpha channel to .5 or so so that you can see where you surfaces intersect.

With this breakthru some of the other stuff makes sence and I can try some more stuff.

I have many more questions.

[JeffM]

a face is made of verts, so you only define the verst for one face at a time.

the current version has a "noculling" option that you can apply to a material to make it have "both sides".

you all may want to do some reading on real modeling, because that's all this is. Most other games have been doing this since the 90's

[tadd]

you all may want to do some reading on real modeling, because that's all this is.

Care to recommend a book?

Tadd

[tadd]

There are no more 1.11.28 servers running. Update to at least 1.11.35, it's a different protocol.

I would update if there was a MacOSX version newer than 1.11.28.
Perhaps Sunday I'll learn configuration management, CVS, Fink, Xcode and packaging and get the latest version. Then I'll get into reading up on real modelling. No, wait. wife would kill me and boss would miss me on Monday.

Actually. What i HAVE been working on is a C program that takes a slightly higher level set of primitives and compiles them into the BZW format. This so I could make the mods to my V1 BZW map needed to work with V2 tanks (they are bigger and can drive over bumps) and with just a little bit of color thrown around. I may drag a previously disinterested Unix-driver writing friend of mine into getting me a modern MacOSX version tomorrow.

Thanks for any constructive help.
Tadd

[JeffM]

the release is being done now, just get the real mac binary when it's done.

[Scorch]

I spent a whole day yesterday and now I understand most everyhing. I am clueless about this vertex stuff but I doubt ill ever know and im gonna try seeing what dynamic color does today. I'm making a v2 map!