Historic Map Ideas

Previews and comments on future maps.
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I_Died_Once
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Historic Map Ideas

Post by I_Died_Once » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:21 pm

I don't exactly see the appeal of the Normandy game up and playing. The map is not all that playable, the game is very lopsides and not balanced, yet it is off teh chain popular. I think they ought to add a boat coming ashore, as the allied forces did storm the beach. (My father, a Green Beret in the 82nd Airbourne was there)

But that aside, I see the other thread about the D Day invasion, and I'm thinking of other historic battle and acts of violence that would be great if a game were rendered from teh idea.

Like the incident in Tiannamen Square where tanks rolled over and squished the protesters. Make that into a Free For All. We could use one of those huge tanks from "The Two Tanks: Laser Sniping" in that with some hanging China flags...

Or how about a CTF based off of the Battle of Gettysburgh? Wounded Knee? Have one side of rugged terrain have some teepees, campfires, and the other have some horses and stables. Use a "skybox" and looks like we're all surrounded with by indians and cowboys.

What about we remodel LouMans Metropolis" and make it into Baghdad: Current Day" Make the streets look like they're alive with people, have random world weapon SW's go off, and when you get killed by it, it says "Killed by a Suicide Bomber" - and almost the same way we got the flames to move the other day, we can have the sky "move" and have helicopters flying over head. World weapon bullets and it'll say "sniper fire" when you get killed.

I could come up with more. Not that these will ever come to fruition, but they're fun ideas to kick around none-the-less.
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Post by CloakerGirl » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:14 pm

They are fun ides! I like the last one, with sniper fire and bombers. That i san awesome idea! Sometime somebody should do one of those.
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Post by DTRemenak » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:25 pm

I'm totally loving the "Tiananmen Square Steam Roller Arena" idea ;)

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Post by CloakerGirl » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:36 pm

Yeah, same here. I think some of us should get together and do something like that. I think it would be sweet to do something like cut the map into sections and make it like a mall or something, but a dangerous mall. Like, if you touch the stuff you get killed, and the message is 'Got caught shoplifting' or 'No touchy!' or something like that. I love all the ides you gave for maps, and I think they would be really popular if you made them and put them up.
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Post by Longhair » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:46 pm

Personally, I'd stay away from scenarios where tanks are running over innocent/helpless people, but I guess it depends upon how a big a scene you're trying to make.

Overall, I think the idea of recreating historical battles has a ton of possibilities. Just WWII alone has plenty to work with.

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Post by Peter » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:12 pm

Just plain tasteless, I know it is just a game but some respect for the people in those historic incidents would be nice.
Like the incident in Tiannamen Square where tanks rolled over and squished the protesters
In Tiannamen Square people where killed by being shot, being shot by there govement for having a different view, they where standing up for them selves and for the rights of millions, not by being "squished". I am trying not to go to off topic here but 1,000,000's of people died in WWI and WWII, some respect would be nice.
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:06 pm

There were deaths at the Battle of Normandy. You didn't protest about that map.

I see no difference with other memorable historical moments.
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Post by Peter » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:09 pm

....actualy, I had the same feeling about normady aswel, I would hardly call it a "protest".
Besides, it isn't about me.
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Post by Tropican8 » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:51 pm

PETER wrote:Besides, it isn't about me.
This "politically correct" nonsense really gets to me. It is one thing if you personally are offended or find something disrespectful, but it's totally different if you are claiming to be saying something on the behalf of others.

There is nothing stopping people who actually take exception to the matter from speaking. You are insulting them by making the assumption that you can defend them better than they could themselves.

You are welcome to feel the way you do, but don't try to be a martyr in order to shirk dissenting views. This is very much about you and your individual opinion, please don't try to put yourself on some sort of pedestal.

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Post by DTRemenak » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:20 pm

PETER: One of the greatest dangers in society is forgetting our own history. Creating scenarios based off of historical events (even if they're crazily unrelated) is one way to avoid this.

Which would you prefer, for nobody to remember Tiananmen Square (as is the case in China today), or for them to see the name on a BZFlag server, remember the map because it was stupid/sick/fun/cool/whatever, and ask about it or look it up on Wikipedia?

Objecting to historically-themed entertainment is the best way to forget history.

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Post by Triumph of the Soul » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:09 am

All this political correctness discussion is mildly entertaining, but in my spare time from reading it I would like to propose a possible map under the WWII theme.

The Northern American Cemetery and Memorial at Colleville-sur-Mer might be a good FFA (possibly a non-radar map). It wouldn't be to hard either. Just take a similar layout to CBG's "King of the Cans" map, change the cans into gravestones, add some memorial buildings, trees, and vualá, you've got yourself a cemetery map.
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Post by Stij » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:30 am

Ah, see what happens when you mention something remotely offensive? :D

The Baghdad map sounds awesome though. You might wanna tone down the world weapons a bit though, that could get annoying.

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Post by Peter » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:22 am

I wasn't trying to "martyr" anything. And I nor anyone else in this forum topic said "politically correct", so there is no point quoting that. I wasn't asking for respect for me, just for the people who fought for the freedoms that you now enjoy, but hey, it's a free world so do what ever you like, DTRemenak
yeah, you kinda got me there, but there are memorial parks to do that aswel.
;)
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Post by blast » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:23 pm

PETER wrote:I wasn't trying to "martyr" anything. And I nor anyone else in this forum topic said "politically correct", so there is no point quoting that. I wasn't asking for respect for me, just for the people who fought for the freedoms that you now enjoy, but hey, it's a free world so do what ever you like, DTRemenak
yeah, you kinda got me there, but there are memorial parks to do that aswel.
;)
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Post by Catoblepas » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:32 pm

Couldn't you have just private messaged him intsead of saying it in the forum, it is this kinda post that makes topics go off topic.

PETER is right on this one, it is just plain bad taste.

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Post by Tedius » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:57 pm

Hear hear! DTRemark

I learned quite alot about Normandy since I started playing the map. (props to CBG and jinx) Just becoming aware of the history makes the map completely worth it. I think historical maps are a great idea if they are well researched and representative.

As for the lopsidedness of Normandy. Yes, it is. Imagine the incredible odds the Allies overcame. I have gone from hating the map to loving it because of the determination and teamwork it requires. Who ever said a map needs to be perfectly symmetrical? Can't we have fun even if our scores don't show it? Those that currently hate the map, I suggest you give it a second or third chance (or more).

I find Normandy very playable and I hope it returns to "off teh chain popular" status again. (whatever that means)
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Post by L4m3r » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:47 pm

As a BZFlag player, you all have the right to "vote with your feet", i.e. if you find a server or map offensive, you are free to not play there. If enough people find it to be in bad taste, the server won't be popular. Whining about it accomplishes nothing.
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Post by Spazzy McGee » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:45 pm

Tedius wrote:I learned quite alot about Normandy since I started playing the map. (props to CBG and jinx)
Who's jinx? It was CBG and I that made normandy.
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Post by joevano » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:48 pm

Spazzy Mcgee wrote:Who's jinx? It was CBG and I that made normandy.
'jinx' must be you then ;)

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Post by Stij » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:53 pm

Normandy isn't such a bad map, but I don't get the point of a CTF map where only ONE team can score.

Plus, eye-searing yellow sand. :P

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:03 pm

Stij wrote:Normandy isn't such a bad map, but I don't get the point of a CTF map where only ONE team can score.

Plus, eye-searing yellow sand. :P
Because the real battle was an attack-defence scenario.
The axis had no reason to leave their base and take a swim.
The allies were attacking the base and I was tempted to make it FFA...
It's CTF because an FFA would just result in people fighting everywhere.
The CTF element GIVES the axis something to defend and gives the allies something to aim for.
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Post by CloakerGirl » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:23 pm

I think all the ideas are sweet, and the Normandy map is well presented. I agree with Tedious. He said (more or less) that as long as the map is well presented and researched, then there isn't really anything wrong with it. But that's just my opinion. Although I do love hearing other people's ideas. In my opinion, this is a great thing to talk over. I would love to hear a really good answer, but we could also just combine what we all think and make one really good map! Or a couple of awesome maps! :D :D :D
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Post by Tedius » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Sorry about not being clear, Spazzy. Props to you too for making it. CBG and jinx were the ones who schooled me on the history of Normandy. One of whom had a much more patient teaching style... but I won't mention who.

;)
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Post by ducktape » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:02 pm

DTRemenak wrote:I'm totally loving the "Tiananmen Square Steam Roller Arena" idea ;)
i'm with you the other day I saw a thing on TV about this..kinnda about this. it was about a: "Tank Man" that could go good with a map. at least i think.

here is the tank man pic
http://voyage.typepad.com/lfc_images/Ti ... nk_Man.jpg teh picture kinnda explains itself.
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Post by Peter » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:40 pm

Explains it's self in the way that someone felt so passionately about the governents wrongfull behavoir that he was willing to literaly stare death in the face as prostest, that tank man? Oh yeah, a server about that where we go around shooting each other on it having fun would be very appropriate. :roll:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... men+Square

.....Now I see what your saying, looks like a good bit of fun {sarcasim}
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