Multiple Levels of CHAOS - almost half-done :)

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LeGeeko
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Multiple Levels of CHAOS - almost half-done :)

Post by LeGeeko » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:56 pm

Here's my first hopefully-public map: Multiple Levels of CHAOS! It's a multi-level CTF map , although what I have so far is a mere framework. Everything is hand-coded, it's more fun that way. :) I may be new to the forums, but I've made a few BZF maps in my time, although never hosted one. I need someone to host it. If I may be so bold: will someone please host this map? Thanks! PS This map is copyrighted. Please comment on the map design.
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blast
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Post by blast » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:48 am

First off, there were some parameters in your options block I had to remove to make the map run (-publicaddr was one).

Anyway, the map is temporarily running at bzexcess.com on port 9100. There seems to be an lack of a way to get from one area of the map to another. I see how you have it divided into three sections. However, it is not possible to reach the teleporters to navigate between those sections. Also, it is not possible to get back to one's own base, since there are not enough objects to jump around on.

I would suggest that you test the map on a local instance of bzfs to make sure it's actually playable.
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Post by LeGeeko » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:08 am

I did test it locally, and it is playable. Barely. You have to time the jumps perfectly, adding an element that most players lack. I will definitely add more boxes, but it was intended to be difficult to get a team flag from one base to another. Thanks for hosting.

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Post by LeGeeko » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:11 am

OK, now I see the problem. It must be run with "set _tankSpeed 36" ( or greater ). Sorry for the confusion. :oops:

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Post by blast » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:15 am

I updated the speed. However, you may want to reconsider how that works. It's an awful lot of jumping just to get to the teleporter, and then you're only half way there. I can also see people camping down by the two teleporters with a shockwave flag. Since it is the only form of movement to the other base, it would be easy for one or two players to hold an entire team at bay. It would be nice to have multiple paths to reach the various areas.

I really like the idea of multiple layers. The one disadvantage is that the radar doesn't handle stacked bases, so you only see one color on the radar. One possible way to handle that would be to offset or rotate them so they don't perfectly overlap.
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Post by LeGeeko » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:46 pm

Hmm...

You're right, I'll have to do something about location of teles etc.
I'll need at least 2 teles going up, and a better way of getting down.

I like the multiple-layer thing too, otherwise I wouldn't have made it. Not many paps take advantage of the Z dimension. With 3 layers, you can have thrice the playing area. Cool. There are advantages and disadvantages of the layered play, as you said.

Currently, the only advantage that any team can have is holding off the teles.

The great thing about public map tests is that other players point out any mistakes I made in the design. But, as I stated earlier, I made it hard to get a team flag from one base to another on purpose. Most maps rely on defensive positions: hard to get in, easy to get out. But this one is not at all defensive; Instead, it's rather open. It's easy to get in, but very difficult to get out. That's the point.

Thanks again for hosting, and your opinions.

I'll probably have a new version ready by tomorrow, but you don't need to go through the trouble of updating the server.

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Post by Grace F » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:30 am

LeGeeko wrote:I like the multiple-layer thing too, otherwise I wouldn't have made it. Not many paps take advantage of the Z dimension. With 3 layers, you can have thrice the playing area
By 'paps' im guessing you meant 'maps' :) Im confused with what you mean... there are many many maps that do take advantage of the 'Z' dimension. The only maps I can think of that dont are the non jumping servers, Hepcat for example. Is that what you meant? Or did you mean layer exactly on-top of another, on-top of another etc.?

My advice isn't anything new but yea, definately add more blocks. If making the map really hard and all about jumping, then even making the platforms smaller will achieve that :) Try different things, maybe even circular platforms.

What I like to do is Pyra Jump, /set _noClimb 0, or /set _noClimb 1 (cant remember which) allows you to jump in the direction you want straight off a pyra. Most maps don't allow this but I think it's really cool. Have 1 secret way to each base, you have to jump onto a small pyramid then jump off onto a physics driver and launch yourself up :P ...ok maybe not but it's an idea :D
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Re: Multiple Levels of CHAOS - almost half-done :)

Post by the_j0k3r » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:13 am

LeGeeko wrote: PS This map is copyrighted. .
In reference to this, i might direct you to this link to the FAQ page in the map releases section.
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Re: Multiple Levels of CHAOS - almost half-done :)

Post by CannonBallGuy » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:20 am

the_j0k3r wrote:
LeGeeko wrote: PS This map is copyrighted. .
In reference to this, i might direct you to this link to the FAQ page in the map releases section.
What is your point? He is entitled to state that his work is copyrighted - it is.
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Re: Multiple Levels of CHAOS - almost half-done :)

Post by A Meteorite » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:05 pm

the_j0k3r wrote:
LeGeeko wrote: PS This map is copyrighted. .
In reference to this, i might direct you to this link to the FAQ page in the map releases section.
Licensing does not change the status of your copyright. It just states how a person may use your copyrighted work.

Though I do suggest LeGeeko choose a license that he would like his work under, otherwise if it's posted here people may assume the most lax license (such as the LGPL, or a lax CC license).
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Post by the_j0k3r » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:36 am

Sorry confused copyrighting and licensing. Thought that he meant no one else could use it.
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Post by LeGeeko » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:19 am

No, I didn't mean that no one else can use it. By "Copyright 2007 LeGeeko" I mean nobody can host it and say that they created it themselves. It's my way of saying "I made this, not you, and you have no right to say that you made it, etc...!". You are more than welcome to use it, but you have to include "map by LeGeeko" somewhere on the server. It's to prevent arguments and flame wars and that kind of thing.
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Post by LeGeeko » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:00 pm

Grace F wrote: By 'paps' im guessing you meant 'maps' :) Im confused with what you mean... there are many many maps that do take advantage of the 'Z' dimension. The only maps I can think of that dont are the non jumping servers, Hepcat for example. Is that what you meant? Or did you mean layer exactly on-top of another, on-top of another etc.?

My advice isn't anything new but yea, definately add more blocks. If making the map really hard and all about jumping, then even making the platforms smaller will achieve that :) Try different things, maybe even circular platforms.
Yes, I meant maps. :) What I mean by "take advantage of the Z dimension" is they don't use it to add more playing area. Pretty much all maps have buildings and stacks of blocks, but when the map is finished, they don't think to add another layer on top of it. A few maps do, but not many. I should have said "take full advantage of the Z dimension".

As for the blocks, that's definitely on my to-do list. I'm in the stage where I already have the rough outline, and I just need to fill in the details. This is where a map editor comes in handy. Unfortunately, the Blender plugin cannot import maps for me ( something to do with the Blender version, I think ), and BZEdit refuses to work with WINE. So, I've gotta do it all by hand. Not that I'm against hand-made maps, but it gets very tedious.

Thanks again for the help and advice.
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Post by blast » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:58 pm

Part of the reason they don't do that is that the radar doesn't handle stacked levels very well.
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Post by LeGeeko » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:31 pm

True, but an observant player can roughly estimate the Z value of another player's location by the size of the other player's dot on the radar. The radar is only good for "mapping" the Z dimension when it is set to Enhanced mode. Even then, it's not much good for Z mapping on a complex map such as Fox Burrow or Urban Jungle. There's too many stacks of stuff. Although, I can see that may be the point you were trying to make. Um.
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Post by TD-Linux » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:30 am

LeGeeko wrote:No, I didn't mean that no one else can use it. By "Copyright 2007 LeGeeko" I mean nobody can host it and say that they created it themselves. It's my way of saying "I made this, not you, and you have no right to say that you made it, etc...!". You are more than welcome to use it, but you have to include "map by LeGeeko" somewhere on the server. It's to prevent arguments and flame wars and that kind of thing.
OK, so the above is your license. That is perfectly fine, but the problem with copyrights is that by default, nobody can use your work for any reason other than fair use without your permission. This isn't what you want, so you should give permission like you just did, or use a premade license like a Creative Commons one. They are nice as they have pre-written legalese that covers loopholes.

I would try your map, but unfortunately, I'm kind in the middle of reinstalling Windows :(

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