"Trainer" map suggestion box

Previews and comments on future maps.
User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

"Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Agent West » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:44 am

Hey everyone!
I'm currently working on a "trainer" (or "tutorial") map to have so that newbies would at least have an idea about how to play before they go onto a busy server, get their butt kicked, get discouraged, and leave. So looking at how most games made theirs, i'm making it to be few rooms where first one explains driving, next one explains jumping, next one is about shooting/rico and so on. Last one would be a big field full of bots (two reasons for bots: simple to destroy and will keep the map at the top of server list so newbies will notice it right away) that the player would have to cross to cap a flag, thus finishing the basic tutorial.

Anyone got suggestions/ideas? Lemme know!

NOTE:
THe rooms are 30 by 30 tank-meters, 30 high. Anyone is welcome to make a room or two :)
Last edited by Agent West on Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
Mark_IV
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:24 am
Location: Actually joined 2004 or 2005 as tyjr ;)

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Mark_IV » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:22 pm

Nice, I was thinking of a map like this, but I never got around to it.

It would need a plugin where they can't shoot at the beginning, or at least be all the same team with -noteamkills.
A map like this would have to be easy to follow, I can easily see all the rooms getting confusing.
In my opinion it should have 2 rooms for each concept. The first one with directions on how to do it, and the second a small trainer. (ie, One room would teach jumping, and its accompanying room would say have platforms they need to jump to)

I used to have some other ideas for a map like this, but since I never made it I've forgotten them.

User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Agent West » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:41 pm

Thanks for the input!
Was planning on making it One player/many obs (watch-and-learn kinda thing) plus bots for target practice.
The rooms would have exits outlined in bright border with maybe an "exit" sign on it.
Two rooms per concept might be a good idea, for now there will be billboards, one per room, that describe how to do one thing at a time. Things like the MoFo Twist (or MoFo Jump, as some call it) would be in the next room folowing the Basic Jumping. The Pyramid Climb would be after that, and so on from simple to difficult.
Last edited by Agent West on Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
Mark_IV
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:24 am
Location: Actually joined 2004 or 2005 as tyjr ;)

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Mark_IV » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:11 am

If I find the time I may try my hand at making a few. April vacation in in 2 weeks so I may try one.

One player may not be a good idea if it catches on. A tutorial map is greatly needed and 1 at a time could get clogged.

User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Agent West » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:03 am

We can always increase the number of players, although won't go over 3 yet, depending one how much stuff there will be.
Issue with multiple players would be them trying to shoot each other as soon as they are able, although with them being on same team a No TK thing can be used.
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
ryanfesta
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:57 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by ryanfesta » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:02 pm

It's great to hear from you again, Agent West. This is my new callsign; I was guitargeek42... A trainer map is a great idea, but now that BZFlag is getting old and retiring, this might be near pointless. This seems like a very harsh word to me, but no other word was coming to me. The number of players in BZFlag are dramatically dropping, so this kind of map is both a good and bad idea.
How much dub could a dubstep step if a dubstep could step dub?
Obviously, it's 7.456 wubs.

User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Agent West » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:02 pm

I was hoping that a trainer would help bring new people in but you might be right.
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
Pizzahead
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:42 pm
Location: New York, USA
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Pizzahead » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:19 pm

BZFlag may be dying, but it certainly isn't beyond help. The idea sounds great, AW, keep working on it. I'll be brainstorming ideas for it as well.
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who.

User avatar
ryanfesta
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:57 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by ryanfesta » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:46 am

Well, I definitely believe it would work and attract players, so dont give up on the idea, Agent West.
How much dub could a dubstep step if a dubstep could step dub?
Obviously, it's 7.456 wubs.

easy tank
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:38 am

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by easy tank » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:59 am

I have an idea, you could make Dodge Training Room!

- Easy !

User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Agent West » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:42 pm

How would you want the dodge room? Random World Weapons or Bots shooting at ya?
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
JeffM
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 5172
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:11 am
Location: [Redacted]
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by JeffM » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:29 pm

There are 2 main problems with a tutorial map for new players with the current software

1) There is no way to let players know they should play on the tutorial map first. We have no way of sending new people to a tutorial, and there is no way to change where the tutorials show in the list server.
2) The server can't really direct the player with prompts and ensure the player has learned the correct controls. To do a proper tutorial you'd want the server to bring up little popup dialog boxes with information that the player has to read. Info in chat will just be ignored or misunderstood.

Having a tutorial is a great idea, but unless it is fully sported with the rest of the software it may not be as useful as hoped.

User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Agent West » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:41 am

Agree, Jeff. As nice as it would be to have a "Tutorial" in the main menu, there is not one yet. As far as getting it to show up at the top of server list, that's kinda why the bots will be there. Not exactly a fair way, but it might be possible under the circumtances. Or set the "Message of the Day" to something along the lines of "Please go to such and such server/map for a tutorial." and hope newbies will actually notice it.
As far as letting people know what to do, i'm planning on making bilboards above (or next to) the 'doors' so people see them before they go to the next part. Would be awesome to have a "ghost tank" to perform the actions so players can observe and repeat. I guess a Replay Server setup won't work though.
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
blast
General
General
Posts: 4672
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:49 pm
Location: playing.cxx
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by blast » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 am

Agent West wrote:As far as getting it to show up at the top of server list, that's kinda why the bots will be there. Not exactly a fair way, but it might be possible under the circumtances.
Artificially inflating the list position violates the list server rules.
Agent West wrote:Or set the "Message of the Day" to something along the lines of "Please go to such and such server/map for a tutorial." and hope newbies will actually notice it.
The MOTD is pretty much worthless, since the text is behind the menu.
Agent West wrote:Would be awesome to have a "ghost tank" to perform the actions so players can observe and repeat. I guess a Replay Server setup won't work though.
I'm not sure of the current state of server-side players, but that's something that would (eventually) make that possible.
"In addition to knowing the secrets of the Universe, I can assure you that I am also quite potty trained." -Koenma (Yu Yu Hakusho)

Image

User avatar
JeffM
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 5172
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:11 am
Location: [Redacted]
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by JeffM » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:21 am

I would not use the MOTD to advertise a third party server, and yes bots would get a server that did that banned from the list server.

There is no method to "ghost" a player, local or server side.

User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Agent West » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:35 pm

How many bots can i have without violating the rules?
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
JeffM
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 5172
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:11 am
Location: [Redacted]
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by JeffM » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:49 pm

there is not a number, the rule is that bots can not be used to move the server up the list ranks.

User avatar
dartman
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:20 pm
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by dartman » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:06 pm

I like the ghost tank idea. Maybe you could use some kind of moving, pass-through object in the shape of a tank and have that demonstrate what the player should do? Or maybe you could make the blllboards animated and use that to show them step-by-step?

Also, maybe there's a way to make a plug-in so that whenever someone enters one of the rooms, the server will send them a message telling them what to do. Pop-up windows might be the best way to go, but since we don't have that I don't see why the message box would be such a problem. I don't think it would be ignored if it's used consistently enough and if private messages are used instead of general ones, so that they'll hear the sound every time the server tells them something. That way you could use the messages for the actual written directions and then reserve the billboards for simple animations demonstrating what they're supposed to do.

User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by Agent West » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:05 am

Actually considering the Animated Billboard idea at this point.
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
Agent West
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

Update!

Post by Agent West » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:12 am

~Instead of using bots i've decided to use two teams of human players (red VS blue).
~The "rooms" are now 60x60 instead of 30x30, still 30 tall.
~Changed the layout a little. Now there are six zones for each team:

1- Driving. Tells newbies how to drive the tanks.
2- Jumping. A basic "jump to get to the next section".
3- MoFo Jump (or Twist Jump). Explains this tricky maneuver with an animated billboard.
4- Teleport. Basic two-teleporter setup to show what they are for.
5- Dodging. Make your way through bullets to get to the next section.
6- Tank VS Tank. Actual combat situation where the two teams meet. The zone is divided by "don't cross this line" line to prevent camping.
Attachments
trainer_map.png
The layout of the map.
trainer_map.png (6.15 KiB) Viewed 2497 times
Rest in peace, AliceD (AKA Happy Alice)! miss ya!

User avatar
SkillDude
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: United States

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by SkillDude » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:00 am

As a recommendation, and I don't want this to become too complex, is hand out flags once they are in tank versus tank mode and messages will pop up explaining how it can be used. Flags will alternate randomly to allow players to learn the various flags too. I think adding this to the training map will complete every aspect of BZFlag in a nutshell. The cycling through flags could be done in a separate stage, but at the same time, their usefulness may be more suitable in actual combat. Perhaps have the player get one kill with one flag before cycling to another. Bad flags should also be explained, and flags like Phantom Zone and useless may only be mentioned but not actually given out.

Just a thought on something I find missing from your schematics.

User avatar
dartman
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:20 pm
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by dartman » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:40 pm

Maybe, but don't the flags already come with a brief description when you pick them up anyway?

User avatar
blast
General
General
Posts: 4672
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:49 pm
Location: playing.cxx
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by blast » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:55 pm

Only if you have that turned on. It's on by default, but you can't assume the user hasn't bumped the 'f' key.
"In addition to knowing the secrets of the Universe, I can assure you that I am also quite potty trained." -Koenma (Yu Yu Hakusho)

Image

User avatar
dartman
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:20 pm
Contact:

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by dartman » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:06 am

Got it. Still, I wouldn't see the point in going through nearly every single flag in the game during one training session. It would probably make the new players impatient. What might make more sense is if you grouped certain similar flags together (shot altering flags, size/hitbox altering flags, flags that affect movement, bad flags, etc.) and just had them use one of each type. You could even have the different flags of certain types sorted into certain areas to make it easier for them to pick out the type they're looking for. That way they aren't going through every different flag in the game at once, but they aren't being limited to being able to use only the same few flags from each type every time they play the server--they might end up with different flags each time they play. Alternatively, if you didn't want to sort the flags on the map like that, you could have all the different flags spread out over the tank vs. tank zone and allow them to pick up the flags freely as on any other server, but they only have to score a kill with one flag from each type (except maybe bad flags) in order for the server to register that they've completed the tutorial and can continue practicing in the tank vs. tank zone freely if they wish. If possible, you could have the server send them a couple of messages whenever they pick up a flag: one briefly describing that flag type, and another describing that particular flag and maybe a quick tip about how to use it.

Also, it would be cool if someone could make a trainer map for CTF play as well, considering that's the playing style that gave BZFlag its name. Probably not on the same map though--maybe if this could be made into some kind of series.

User avatar
ryanfesta
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:57 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

Re: "Trainer" map suggestion box

Post by ryanfesta » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:47 pm

I think this would all be great; I love all the new ideas. But dont drift too far! We starred off with possible ideas, but we have to make sure this is all feasible.

This is the time where JeffM comes in and crashes the party!
How much dub could a dubstep step if a dubstep could step dub?
Obviously, it's 7.456 wubs.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest