There is nothing definite yet, but I expect a release very soon now, probably this week. So I urge everyone who is interested to try out the current development version (from CVS, or downlaod windows binary from MrApathyCream's website) and post your thoughts on it. Suggestion for small changes are welcome, but basically the current code will probably be shipped as is.
This will probably be the last backwards compatible release. After that, the plan is to break the protocol to be able to redo some anachronisms.
upcoming 1.7g2 release
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DEATH[2-I]
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just tested the beta,
it's much slower, very jerky.
i hope thats because of internal debug code, and it's not just going the way of windows.
IE - new release = slower,bigger & nore bugs!!!
also i found a serious bug.
on worlds with underwater sections you cant jump out,
it thinks the surface of the water is the ceiling/roof and stops you going through it!!!!!!
VERY NASTY.
on a final note, the settings are stored in the same location on all versions - causing my settings to be the same on all versions.
it would be better to store the settings in the install directory.
that way i could install several versions each with different settings.
i know this is not the place for this, but if somebody on the devteam could be warned about this i would apreciate it.
it's much slower, very jerky.
i hope thats because of internal debug code, and it's not just going the way of windows.
IE - new release = slower,bigger & nore bugs!!!
also i found a serious bug.
on worlds with underwater sections you cant jump out,
it thinks the surface of the water is the ceiling/roof and stops you going through it!!!!!!
VERY NASTY.
on a final note, the settings are stored in the same location on all versions - causing my settings to be the same on all versions.
it would be better to store the settings in the install directory.
that way i could install several versions each with different settings.
i know this is not the place for this, but if somebody on the devteam could be warned about this i would apreciate it.
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MrApathyCream
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No this is a release build, so if it's jerky, i'm not sure why.DEATH[2-I] wrote:just tested the beta,
it's much slower, very jerky.
i hope thats because of internal debug code, and it's not just going the way of windows.
IE - new release = slower,bigger & nore bugs!!!
also i found a serious bug.
on worlds with underwater sections you cant jump out,
it thinks the surface of the water is the ceiling/roof and stops you going through it!!!!!!
VERY NASTY.
on a final note, the settings are stored in the same location on all versions - causing my settings to be the same on all versions.
it would be better to store the settings in the install directory.
that way i could install several versions each with different settings.
i know this is not the place for this, but if somebody on the devteam could be warned about this i would apreciate it.
Pyramid collision detection had a bug in it that allowed you to move through them, this has now been fixed. If you still want the jump-thru behaviour you may be able to get this by specifying pyramids that are upside down.
a configurable location for the settings isn't a bad idea.
Really. Hmmm. Apathy, if you can speak for the developers you know, do developers understand that correcting this "bug" undermines many existing map designs?Pyramid collision detection had a bug in it that allowed you to move through them, this has now been fixed.
It's nice that the devs are fixing bugs, but I'm not sure this "bug" is one that needs "fixing". I know that a lot of strategy woven into map design is based upon pyramids that you can fall, jump, and drive through when above ground level.
May be it would be a good idea to introduce a new parameter for pyramids in map text files that switch on/off the collision detection? Default would be to have collision detection on if this paramter is not supplied to support existing maps.
What do you think, Apathy and other devs? I'll repost this at sourceforge.
protected object myTank(){
foreach(noob in this.game){return frag(noob);}}
foreach(noob in this.game){return frag(noob);}}
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MrApathyCream
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Well, i think there's no question that this is a bug.
Worlds built on bugs, should expect to have problems in the future.
However, having said that, You can still do what you want.
For pool-like functionality, You can still get the move-thru characteristics of pyramids by specifying negative heights.
For normal pyramids shapes, you can get the same move-thru characteristics by shifting the position slightly above the platform that it appears to rest on.
Below is a sample world showing a solution:
-------------------
pyramid
position -50 0 12
size 50 50 -4
rotation 0
end
box
position 50 0 12
size 50 50 5
rotation 0
end
pyramid
position 50 0 17.5
size 10 10 10
rotation 0
end
Worlds built on bugs, should expect to have problems in the future.
However, having said that, You can still do what you want.
For pool-like functionality, You can still get the move-thru characteristics of pyramids by specifying negative heights.
For normal pyramids shapes, you can get the same move-thru characteristics by shifting the position slightly above the platform that it appears to rest on.
Below is a sample world showing a solution:
-------------------
pyramid
position -50 0 12
size 50 50 -4
rotation 0
end
box
position 50 0 12
size 50 50 5
rotation 0
end
pyramid
position 50 0 17.5
size 10 10 10
rotation 0
end
I avoided using negative height pyramids because I was under the impression that they sometimes caused problems for servers and/or clients (ie: inability to load the map or crashes). Is this not ture?
So, if negative height pyramids disable collision detection while positive ones enabled it, where does this leave zero height pyramids?
Does this affect the ability to use pyramids as camping zones, such as putting a pyramid at a z position of 0.001?
Also, is this change in bzfs or bzflag? I assume that a change in bzflag would affect only the clients who use 1.7g2 version, and a change in bzfs would affect everyone that connects to a server.
Thanks in advance for the information, Apathy.
So, if negative height pyramids disable collision detection while positive ones enabled it, where does this leave zero height pyramids?
Does this affect the ability to use pyramids as camping zones, such as putting a pyramid at a z position of 0.001?
Also, is this change in bzfs or bzflag? I assume that a change in bzflag would affect only the clients who use 1.7g2 version, and a change in bzfs would affect everyone that connects to a server.
Thanks in advance for the information, Apathy.
protected object myTank(){
foreach(noob in this.game){return frag(noob);}}
foreach(noob in this.game){return frag(noob);}}
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LuZeeFa
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Re: upcoming 1.7g2 release
good work devs .. thx. :thumb:Chestal wrote:... and post your thoughts on it. Suggestion for small changes are welcome, but basically the current code will probably be shipped as is.
the configurable mouse box is the most important modification for me.
beside that i would suggest unattached cofigurable mouse and message areas so that different heights/sizes for both areas become possible.
bezee
Re: upcoming 1.7g2 release
I don't quite get this. The real size (in pixels) of the mouse boxes now depends on the dimensions of the main view and the mouse box size settings. Thus, with opacity set to 1.0, increasing the radar size (and along with it the vertical size of the message area) decreased the vertical size of the main view which in turn will make the mouse boxes to shrink a little. Is it this interdepence which you'd liek to get rid of?BeZee wrote:[
beside that i would suggest unattached cofigurable mouse and message areas so that different heights/sizes for both areas become possible.
bezee
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LuZeeFa
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Re: upcoming 1.7g2 release
oops, my fault: i meant unattached cofigurable radar and message areas. i would prefer a big radar and a smaller message area.Chestal wrote: .... Is it this interdepence which you'd liek to get rid of?
bezee
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DEATH[2-I]
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well now i am angry,
i just tried to uninstall g1,
it left so much exceptional behind you would not believe it!
if you put an installer on something make sure it will uninstall EVERYTHING afterwards, that includes the dodgy looking cach filez and the player-config file.
otherwise just give us the good old 'zip' type releases again.
(or better still - use 'rar' or 'ace' the compression is much better)
i just tried to uninstall g1,
it left so much exceptional behind you would not believe it!
if you put an installer on something make sure it will uninstall EVERYTHING afterwards, that includes the dodgy looking cach filez and the player-config file.
otherwise just give us the good old 'zip' type releases again.
(or better still - use 'rar' or 'ace' the compression is much better)
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michaelh20
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Speaking of annoying little bugs, the text composing area is still cramped for me Windows 98/ 800x600 TNT Riva. I posted the images in the sourceforge forums a while back. I'm taking whatever it is, it isn't obvious?
Everything else seems ok so far..
And oh.. I love the new flag toggle and improved Silence features too..............
heh
Everything else seems ok so far..
And oh.. I love the new flag toggle and improved Silence features too
..............heh
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Gerbil
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Disappointed?
I'm a bit disappointed in the bugs being "fixed".
Mainly by the near complete indifference by the developers to the players who enjoyed them.
I understand the engineer's desire to have clean code and all but it's a case of structure over purpose to me.
What has been added in playability by this fix?
What has been taken away?
What is the overall sum of these two things?
Is the game "better" or just coded better?
Mainly by the near complete indifference by the developers to the players who enjoyed them.
I understand the engineer's desire to have clean code and all but it's a case of structure over purpose to me.
What has been added in playability by this fix?
What has been taken away?
What is the overall sum of these two things?
Is the game "better" or just coded better?
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purple_cow
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Several people have mentioned techniques for creating the same effect as the bugs had. Its not a question of being clean, its a question of being correct. The pyramid collision code was just wrong. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I have considered it a bug for a long time, and while it feels weird to not be able to shoot through the pyramids at the top of the decks, its the correct behavior. If you want the old, use the inside-out techniques that people have posted.
Hopefully after g2 is out we can add a lot more meta-info to the world to allow some of these worlds that "take advantage" of bugs to be formalized.
Hopefully after g2 is out we can add a lot more meta-info to the world to allow some of these worlds that "take advantage" of bugs to be formalized.
the bug can't be "fixed" with out a protocoll change. Since it's a client only change, old verisons would still go thur pyramids, making them "cheat".
The fix has to be removed till after the proto break. And then a flag can be added to each map item to make it drive thruable. Then there is no "hack" to get the desired effect, there will be a real feature that map editors can use.
I want to do 2 flags, 1 for drive thur, 1 for shot thru. And maybe one one for color and texutre, if' I can get the resource loading stuff going.
The fix has to be removed till after the proto break. And then a flag can be added to each map item to make it drive thruable. Then there is no "hack" to get the desired effect, there will be a real feature that map editors can use.
I want to do 2 flags, 1 for drive thur, 1 for shot thru. And maybe one one for color and texutre, if' I can get the resource loading stuff going.
JeffM-
CobraA1
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I've E-mailed TimRiker about creating a branch in CVS for network-breaking changes.
-CobraA1
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau
My avatar symbol © 2002 Jeremiah Moss. All rights reserved.
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau
My avatar symbol © 2002 Jeremiah Moss. All rights reserved.
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CobraA1
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TimRiker said to wait until g2 is out. Sounds good to me.
-CobraA1
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau
My avatar symbol © 2002 Jeremiah Moss. All rights reserved.
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau
My avatar symbol © 2002 Jeremiah Moss. All rights reserved.
I talked to Tim. We are going to pull the pyrmaid thing till after the proto. break.
Cobra, you don't need Tim's permision to branch on your own. That's what GPL is about. If the code is where you want it when you want to branch, you can have at it when ever you want.
That's what I did.
On a side note, if you branch, and change the major version number, your app will never see "normal" servers, and "normal clients" will never see your servers. It's kinda nice. That's what I did for BZFlag:Zero.
Cobra, you don't need Tim's permision to branch on your own. That's what GPL is about. If the code is where you want it when you want to branch, you can have at it when ever you want.
That's what I did.
On a side note, if you branch, and change the major version number, your app will never see "normal" servers, and "normal clients" will never see your servers. It's kinda nice. That's what I did for BZFlag:Zero.
JeffM-
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Fiberchunks
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I pulled the pyrmaid fix from CVS.
The fix will go back in when the protocoll is broken in the next version.
There have been discusions on the best way to implemnt a "drive thru" feature, but nothing has been decided.
I see the half tank problem some of the time too, I have not had chance to debug it yet tho. I must be part of the vis culling that is done on tank parts. next time I see it and am in the debuger I will look into it.
The fix will go back in when the protocoll is broken in the next version.
There have been discusions on the best way to implemnt a "drive thru" feature, but nothing has been decided.
I see the half tank problem some of the time too, I have not had chance to debug it yet tho. I must be part of the vis culling that is done on tank parts. next time I see it and am in the debuger I will look into it.
JeffMprotocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol, protocol
:banghead: May be if I say it a few more times, you'll remember how to spell it.
protocol, protocol, protocol
Are you now misspelling it on purpose just for spite?
:banghead: May be if I say it a few more times, you'll remember how to spell it.
protocol, protocol, protocol
Are you now misspelling it on purpose just for spite?
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MrApathyCream
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