New game type idea: Destroy The Base(s)

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New game type idea: Destroy The Base(s)

Post by *Boinkage*! » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:13 pm

Okay, I just had an idea. What if you had a game mode in which you had to defend your bases from enemy tanks? Bases would be normal, but there is no team flag. Instead, you must destroy all of the opponent's bases. The number varies by map. You do so by shooting it with weapons. Damage is as follows:
Normal Shot:1
GM:2
L:5
SW:10
SB:3
RF:1/2
MG:None
A base has a set able number of hitpoints,(100 maybe?) which go down upon being shot. If a friendly tank is on a base, it heals 1 hit point per 3 seconds.
Sooooo, Suppose a tank fires 3 GMs at a base, another 2 lasers, another 5 shots, and another 1 SW. (3X2) + (2X5) + (5X1) + (1X10). That equals 31 points of damage. Now a friendly tank stands on it for 28 seconds. Thats 27/3 healed points, which is 9. 100 - 31 = 69. 69 + 9 = 78. Note that when a base has a friendly on it, damage is halved. More tanks don't change the number. A hostile tank doubles damage taken. Is this too complicated, or good? Considering i came up with this while half-asleep, I dunno. What do you think?

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Post by Spazzy McGee » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:53 pm

IMHO, It's actually not a bad idea at all - it would be good fun, and encourage strong teamwork.

Obviously, you'd need some kind of way of seeing how many HP the base still has on the HUD, possibly on the radar,

What happens when a base is destroyed? If you just kill off the losing team, they have to fight off the winning team as soon as they re-spawn. A better idea would be to kill off all players and start a new round.

But then, don't get your hopes up - with development the way it is (i.e. the few devs work to their own schedule, and on features that they want to work on), I wouldn't expect it to ever happen - provided it was Rikered first.

p.s. Your sig is too big, and 10x100 is 1000, not 10,000.
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Post by too much loving » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:01 pm

This sounds like great fun. Hmm... perhaps this idea could exists in two variants

1) A base is destructed upon recieving enough damage. Eventually most of the bases on the map will be gone, and the winning team is the last team to own a base. (This is your idea)

2) A base changes color upon recieving enough damage. The new color is determined by the team color of the last enemy tank to fire a shot at the base before it disappears. In this variant the number of bases is constant, but eventually one team may end up conquering all the bases. This would be somewhat similar to "Capture the base" as suggested by Constitution http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10843

I am not so happy about having different weapons giving different kind of damage. Somehow GM, SW, and SB are strong enough allready, but that is a detail. Actually SB will probably be very effective for attacking the enemy base from a distance. Depending on the map the same may be true for WG, ST, and the laser .

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Post by *Boinkage*! » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:45 am

Oops, math error =P.
Anyways, when you lose all bases the game restarts.
You have to see the base to hit it.
The base could explode in a WW at the time of destruction.
The Pen is Mightier Than the Sword.

Okay, you get a Bic, the orc gets a long sword.

He cuts the Bic in half.

Then he cuts you in half.

Oops, I meant quarters.

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Post by Davy Jones » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:38 pm

Awesome, I like the idea, but there could be some problems with it, suppose there would two tanks on the base, would it heal twice as fast? or just heal as if one tank were on it. Another thing, The game engine would have to know the position of tanks, which i don't *think* is coded into the game right now, correct me if I'm wrong.

Another thing, If there were such a game like this, in order to encourage strong teamwork, i would like to see either one or two shots, as those with 4-5 shots could destroy the base single-handed if they defen ded theirselves well enough.
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Post by red comander » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:23 pm

thats a cool idea

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Post by chicken fingers » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:44 pm

its anice idea but wouldn't when the you died youd spawn on you base so if you kill then thier base is stronger so if you base was dieng personaly id go team chat say all suicide!!! and we all spawn on base giving it alot of hp very quickly. it would be cool but like most ideas it has some bugs. but if it was created they would most likely get the bugs out of it.

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Post by Saber » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:43 pm

This looks like a nice idea. Is there ricochet or not? Just imagine all the TKs just because the ricochet went on a teammate attacking base.
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Post by Davy Jones » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:43 pm

Oh yeah, Another thought, if there were such a map like this, it would be really pointless to have the base on the ground, and you should have the spawning point elsewhere on the base
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Post by Stij » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:04 pm

Saber wrote:This looks like a nice idea. Is there ricochet or not? Just imagine all the TKs just because the ricochet went on a teammate attacking base.
Unless the base ignores rico or something....I dunno.

And yeah, having the spawnpoint be away from your base is a good idea.

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Post by Davy Jones » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:48 pm

That leads to another thought, would you be able to destroy your own base?
We know all of you that like to flag run, would possibly like to destroy your own base as well ;0
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Post by chicken fingers » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:54 pm

i got to thinking about ricochet if there was rico would a laser rico if at the right angel you all know how laser is wouldn't hit the base multiple times?
and we know that most likely the base would count every shot as you said it would take away 5 hp so that would totaly kill it instantly. i realy like rico but the base should have a triangle barier around it or something so ricoing the base is imposile.
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Post by ducatiwannabe » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:24 am

A rather interesting idea, really. Perhaps it could be an objective, not just a base. There are lots of different things you could protect or destroy. :)

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Post by chicken fingers » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:52 am

yea like you would destroy other stuff like the base could have a defense system like word weapon turrets that you would have to destroy.
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Post by Grace F » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:18 pm

Now I think it's getting complicated :P This idea is cool though, but with turrets and all that...hmm, I suppose it could work.
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Post by Spazzy McGee » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:38 pm

ducatiwannabe wrote:A rather interesting idea, really. Perhaps it could be an objective, not just a base. There are lots of different things you could protect or destroy. :)
Picking up on what DW said, there could be a 'destroy [teams]' property for meshes and 2.x objects. This alleviates the need for bases, but still be very much team driven game.

Why restrict it to the base object?
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Post by chicken fingers » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:10 pm

but like the two tanks as we know the base is the sqaure with the eam coor on it. and you can't just touch your teams huge tank to cap it because in technical form that is not the base its just another wall or triangle to the computer so there would have to be some sort of special type of thing to build the base with so it could be destroyed if ya know what i mean.
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Post by Spazzy McGee » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:47 pm

chicken fingers wrote:but like the two tanks as we know the base is the sqaure with the eam coor on it. and you can't just touch your teams huge tank to cap it because in technical form that is not the base its just another wall or triangle to the computer so there would have to be some sort of special type of thing to build the base with so it could be destroyed if ya know what i mean.
I don't know what you mean. To me, that was one huge string of [un]consciousness. I'm not being funny, I literally do not understand what you have said.

Seriously, man, please lay out your posts in sentences and paragraphs, with as much correct spelling as you can. Use full words ("you" instead of "u"), and correct punctuation. I assume you know how to use commas, full-stops (or periods); apostrophes, colons and semi-colons, etc? You know that after ending a sentence, you need to capitalize the first letter of the next sentence?

Proof read your posts after you have done them, and edit them if you see mistakes - seriously, can you yourself read what you have written...?

I'm not trying to flame at you, but you seem to get this a lot - so why not heed the signs? It's not much to ask, and makes it much easier for us all to have a genuine civilized discussion, on what I believe to be a genuinely good idea. This isn't an instant messaging program.

I ask you to edit rephrase your post above, if it actually contains a valid point, so we can actually read it, and continue on topic. Any replies directly to this post can be sent to me via PM, and I will remove this post once you've edited the above post to be readable.

Cheers.
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Post by Stij » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:37 pm

Spazzy Mcgee wrote:
ducatiwannabe wrote:A rather interesting idea, really. Perhaps it could be an objective, not just a base. There are lots of different things you could protect or destroy. :)
Picking up on what DW said, there could be a 'destroy [teams]' property for meshes and 2.x objects. This alleviates the need for bases, but still be very much team driven game.

Why restrict it to the base object?
Hmm, this is getting interesting.

Maybe destructible objects (bases, etc) could be immune to shots from their own team. That would stop people from TKing their own base...

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Post by *Boinkage*! » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:09 pm

I can see this topic is quite large!
Alright, to answer your questions, I thought of turrets, but they could need a LOT of work. Would they fire if a teammate was in the way? Would they sense walls that are shoot-through or not?
The base would be a colored mesh (Like i have a clue of what that is), that causes enemy bullets hitting it to explode, but deal damage. a Counter would appear on the base to show hp. Maybe you could see on radar if it was strong (100-70), damaged (69-30) or critical (29-1, since whats the point of zero?). Upon destruction, a shockwave of large size (100 units? 500? 100000? :twisted: ). The base is then gone forever. When a team wins, the game "resets", as the objects reappear and everyone dies.

Back on turrets: These could be types
Gun turret: Fires a spray off bullets near enemies.
GM turret: Fires GMs at enemies within locking range. STs are not noticed.
Laser turret: Fires lasers at enemies. CLs are simply ignored.
Smart turrets: They are the upgrades of any other turrets. They don't shoot at enemies behind walls, and don't fire when a teammate is in front.
Dumb turrets: Downgrade to any other turret. They are more prone to waste shots at enemies well out of range.
Turrets have a settable number of hp ranging from 10-50
(My hands are getting kind of clumsy here....)

Bases could have mounted turrets protecting it. Now, this might sound stupid, but what if you could pick up turret containers and drop them off the deploy? They would need shot limits, otherwise they could spawn kill.

Own team shots don't hurt bases.

Now imagine this: A base is surrounded by walls that go up indefinitely, but they can be destroyed. They'd have 30 hit points, and when they fall a small area is buried and destroyed, or dealt 10 damage (Including other wall sections. Anyone want to play dominoes? :D ). They could have mounted turrets. Destroying the wall kills the turrets. Once the walls are down, you must destroy the base. Lather, Rinse, Repeat several more times. Oh, and defend your base, too!
The Pen is Mightier Than the Sword.

Okay, you get a Bic, the orc gets a long sword.

He cuts the Bic in half.

Then he cuts you in half.

Oops, I meant quarters.

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Post by Stij » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:24 pm

Okaaay, now I think you're getting a bit too complex. Do you have any idea how you would impliment turrets?

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Post by A Meteorite » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:43 pm

A very complex plug-in can achieve a turrent. If tank is in a certain range of coordinates, it could fire world weapons. Though, not very practical.

But there's a major problem with "destroying" a base. Hit points and dynamic things have already been declined.
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Even if it was decided to be implemented, it is complex and would be far off from 2.2, most likely.
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Post by Stij » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:54 am

So, in other words, no hope of this happening in the near future?

Oh well.

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:19 am

Not unless you find a dev (or more than one) who actually really loves the idea...
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Post by FiringSquad » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:06 pm

I like this idea but I think it should only be possible to damage the base by getting close to it.
Otherwise someone with a laser can sit in comfort, far away, and wreak havoc.

How about simplifying the idea like this. The base has one or more "hoops" associated with it and is damaged when an opposing team member jumps through it.
To repair your base you just jump through your own hoop.
I agree that repair should be limited to a specific rate whereas damage should be unlimited as it will probably be easier/safer to jump through your own "hoop".
Base health should also have a maximum value.

The "hoops" of course need not be near a base and could incorporate teleporters to force the player to battle back to the hoop again or without a teleporter to allow them to make several "hits" in quick succession before they are destroyed.

I expect the team-score could be enhanced to show a base's health without too much difficulty.

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