Voting

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gentle giant
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Voting

Post by gentle giant » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:01 am

Lately while i have been playing there has been a lot of people swearing and then people trying to ban them with votes. But they have not been banned because of the 50% ban policy. They need to adjust that because it includes non-registered people playing. So when 51% of all the tanks there are registered, it takes them all to vote to ban the person. But some tanks don't pay attention. So the person doesn't get banned! We need to change the voting rules. gentle giant
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Re: Voting

Post by gentle giant » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:18 am

No,sry, I messed up. The non-registerd are not involved. But i still think they have to change the system of voting because all of the registerd not wanting to vote. Because that effects the whole voting system.
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Re: Voting

Post by Bambino » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:47 am

Won't happen. The server owner can change the voting percentage. Just leave the server and fnd an admin for that server. You can always silence the player.
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Re: Voting

Post by blast » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:35 am

In 2.99.x, only people that can vote are counted in the totals. This was a bug in 2.0.x. Server owners are welcome to backport the changed code to their own bzfs though.
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Re: Voting

Post by fantastic mr fox » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:41 pm

I've found this too. I always vote where appropriate or issue warnings but can i ever initiate a vote or must it be an admin who does this?
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Re: Voting

Post by Bambino » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:47 pm

Yes, any registered player can start a poll/vote just do
/poll ban <playername> or /poll kick <playername> in the chat (press n or m first)
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Re: Voting

Post by Knox » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:27 pm

I think, the bigger problem is that nobody "really" knows how to vote. Most newcomers just don't know the /poll command, and there are pretty much of 'em out there.
Maybe we could make a leaflet (.pdf) for all of 'em. Those paper would describe how to vote, talk to administrators (z), just BZF in general, most important information at a look! Well, correct me if we already have one, but still better than no idea.
I could do it, but my English isn't that proper.
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Re: Voting

Post by Bambino » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:29 pm

You could read the 'help' built into the bzflag client
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Re: Voting

Post by blast » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:29 pm

A PDF file won't help people. A real solution would be to make the voting system integrated into the GUI of the game.
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Re: Voting

Post by clarahobbs » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:17 am

Or at least mention how to vote in the message of the day.
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Re: Voting

Post by Bambino » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:25 am

I hear the message of the day is hard to change. Many players ask how to vote, sadly the player being banned usually replies "F12 to vote" or "F12 for vote menu" THESE ARE WRONG it is
/vote yes
/vote no
You can also do /vote to see the correct syntax and the different ones like /vote si
And /vote y
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Re: Voting

Post by gentle giant » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:37 am

The part that is confusing for me is the "abstain" part. The registered users that don't vote are basically put into the vote no column for voting. You mostly see people being abstain than voting no to have a poll be unsuccesful. By the way, it does not make any sense that some people are registered and don't know how to vote :roll: .
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Re: Voting

Post by Bambino » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:40 am

The abstain is for registered players who didn't vote yes or no. They may not care about the ban or w/e or thought it was unnessisary so they didn't feel like typng the /vote yes/no
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Re: Voting

Post by blast » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:39 am

Really, this is a sign that our voting system is flawed. I like the system in Left 4 Dead. I think you can start a poll kick straight from the menu (hit Esc, choose to start a poll, and then then choose who you want to vote off). Then it shows an on-screen vote off to the side that shows who voted and what their vote was. To vote, you hit a key (something like F1 for yes and F2 for no). Our poll system isn't very integrated into the game. It was something that was just tacked onto the server.
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Re: Voting

Post by Bambino » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:50 am

Will the voting system change at all in the 3.0.0 future client? Or will of remain the same? You know, the "F12 for vote menu" may become reality...not :P
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Re: Voting

Post by Carnage » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:50 pm

agree with blast,
as well, many players they will vote hesitate and ask what for?
think their should be a optional <reason> field if a player wants.

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Re: Voting

Post by gentle giant » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:29 pm

I think a way to change the voting system would be by having a little pop up in a corner of the sreen. It would say to press "y" to vote yes, or press "u" to vote no. People would still have the option to do a regular vote though. I think that would work if we could get it implemented into the 3.0 version.
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Re: Voting

Post by blast » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:02 am

The voting system in 2.99.x is the exact same as what 2.0.x has. A better poll system would be low priority for a 3.0.0 release.
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Re: Voting

Post by fantastic mr fox » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:53 pm

I agree with blast. A more integrated system would be great including reasons for a ban and a pdf explaining it to privates would be helpful for many I'm sure. The most frustrating thing is when most people or a significant number don't take part in a vote and by default cast the decision.
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Re: Voting

Post by Knox » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:32 pm

blast wrote:A PDF file won't help people.
Just a prejudice. If newcomers could find all important "help" at a look, they would download it. I remember when i started to play. I searched long till i had the information, i looked for. I would have been happier if i had found 'em just at the beginning of my search.
Not that useful to put the informations into "the message of the day". Hardly any "newbie" reads it. Most of 'em want just enjoy the game.
What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed? And what if in your dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then? - Coleridge; English philosopher

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Re: Voting

Post by clarahobbs » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:10 pm

Well then, it could have something like this. The first time BZFlag is started, it pops up with a little dialog saying to go to a certain website for all sorts of help stuff. That could be a pretty simple way to do it.
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Re: Voting

Post by blast » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:35 am

dreamer wrote:
blast wrote:A PDF file won't help people.
Just a prejudice. If newcomers could find all important "help" at a look, they would download it. I remember when i started to play. I searched long till i had the information, i looked for. I would have been happier if i had found 'em just at the beginning of my search.
Not that useful to put the informations into "the message of the day". Hardly any "newbie" reads it. Most of 'em want just enjoy the game.
No, my comment was based on a long term observation. Most people don't even read the "Help" menu that is built into the game. What makes you thing they're going to read a PDF? ;) And you just kinda proved my point with your comment about the MOTD.
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Re: Voting

Post by Knox » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:35 pm

blast wrote:And you just kinda proved my point with your comment about the MOTD.
Hehe. Touché!
If someone opens BZF, he does it because you want to play, to enjoy, and maybe to chat. But if you go to this forum, you do it because you want to collect news, search for help, get informations about this game. That's the difference! Well, there are still guys, who are obviously willing to read everywhere, but "newcomers" ignore things like "The message of the day".
What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed? And what if in your dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then? - Coleridge; English philosopher

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Re: Voting

Post by red-der » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:13 pm

Good arguements from both sides.

As a beginner, the "antique" GUI with slash commands are really hard to learn. It took me my first 2 or 3 years to learn how to vote or how to talk to a specific player and other such things. At the moment, I spent a lot of time to explain such things to newbies;

And its really frustrating for a player to get a kick or ban done if half of the players cant vote or dont know how to. And there is this thing with the limited polls, so you can only start 1 or 2 polls in a certain time period.

For us - used to do votes or other things like /me , /say ,... - this is nothing special or important. But a better GUI (with a good poll-system) would be really great for beginners. But thats another story...

Maybe we should set up a map to learn the basics for the newbies? A map where it is explained how to vote, to talk to a special person, to fill a report? It doesnt need to be something special. more like a guide and place to try this things out. When and where can a beginner try to set a poll or a kick?
So on this map it should be allowed to kill, kick or (short) ban (for maybe 10 seconds) with a poll....



So it could be a place for players who wants to learn it.

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Re: Voting

Post by gentle giant » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:23 pm

the problem red-der is that new registered players just want to play. So they'll go to the server that is there favorite or is at the top of the list. It would be better if there were like 4 bots on the server and signs in the game saying how to do stuff.
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