Team players?

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lep
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Team players?

Post by lep » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:09 am

Reporting GU matches and the actual website should interact by listing who played in the match. It would help other teams prepare for future difficulty...or answer a curious players question...Comments or questions?

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Re: Team players?

Post by Pizzahead » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:12 am

Hmmm. Reporting the players would make it kinda hard on the people reporting the match. (unless they want to :P) You'd have to get input from some admins and the likes. The idea would be, at least I think, a success. But you could always just send the players who played in a message to the team. It could be as simple as that.

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Re: Team players?

Post by Sum Ting Wong » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:14 am

Do you mean that when a match gets reported, they should list who played in said match? If this was possible, wouldn't it take longer for a match to get reported?
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Re: Team players?

Post by Pizzahead » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:17 am

the sorting hat wrote:Do you mean that when a match gets reported, they should list who played in said match? If this was possible, wouldn't it take longer for a match to get reported?
Wouldn't take longer, necessarily, just add an extra step. Wouldn't be all to challenging to add that feature to match page.
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who.

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Re: Team players?

Post by lep » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:26 am

Exactly...

Sending a message to a team is inconvinient because if more teams wanna know, it takes to long...

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Re: Team players?

Post by Bambino » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:13 am

Why can't the team members just talk to eachother and say that they played in that match?
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Re: Team players?

Post by Grace F » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:22 am

Bambino wrote:Why can't the team members just talk to eachother and say that they played in that match?
Perhaps other teams might like to know.
I've often found myself wondering who played in what match when I review the GU Match Results page.
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Re: Team players?

Post by dexter » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:46 am

I don't think this is a good idea. This is how the fun league entering works. You have a huge list of players and have to scroll down until you find them. It's a lot of work and would make entering even more annoying and tedious.
If you want to see who played in a match, you're far better off just checking one of the match-list web-pages. There's already been a similar discussion about adding servers while reporting, http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=13631. I think this would only be possible, if GU switched to an auto-report system, similar to the 1vs1 league. It would also be quite a bit of work getting that set up for all the GU league servers, but in the end I think the large majority of the league would benefit from something like that. I think that it's just too much info for one match. Also, I doubt players would always remember to report server/players to a ref or admin. Only if there is a ref/admin immediately present after the match ends, to enter everything before somebody leaves, it might work. Still, way too much info.

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Re: Team players?

Post by strayer » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:36 am

I see it like dexter...and want to add my two cents (greetings to catay ^^)...

a) When you add a match by hand you have to make sure it's uncomplicated for those who report and those who enter it. So you have to reduce the information to a minimum (as dexter mentioned).
b) If you want to increase information content you have to keep an eye on those who have to deal with reporting/entering. In most cases (like that one) it should end in (semi-)automation. From my experience with the 1vs1 League I can tell you that you have a positive and a negative part. The positive one is the nearly unlimited amount of information you can add to a match report (was it an official or practice match, when did the match start, what was the duration, who played, who substituted who, who captured what and when, who poked how often with his finger in his nose...). This leads to the negative side - someone has to code that (server-side with a plug-in; client-side somehow). The server-side part is tricky and a lot of work. The client-part instead is not harder but has to be at least as reliable as the server part, because it has to decide whether the circumstances for an official tam ctf match were given or not.
What to check and what to add for confirmation or correction is another topic...as the possible benefit of taking care and being aware of callsign changes, automatic bzbb-spawnlist update, ...

However - I know there are different opinions about auto match reporting in the GU League, but in my eyes any further discussion regarding additional match report information is senseless without that, because you are playing too many matches. ;o)
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Re: Team players?

Post by Gabriel G » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:09 pm

dexter wrote: I think this would only be possible, if GU switched to an auto-report system, similar to the 1vs1 league.
What happens then to all the fun matches played? They are reported also? And how about for the random times that some newbies start a countdown?
Use the Search and Edit buttons as your question may have already been answered/posted.

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Re: Team players?

Post by strayer » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:50 pm

Gabriel G wrote:
dexter wrote: I think this would only be possible, if GU switched to an auto-report system, similar to the 1vs1 league.
What happens then to all the fun matches played? They are reported also? And how about for the random times that some newbies start a countdown?
Forget about these questions because there are many very simple ways to get proper solutions.

What happens then to all the fun matches played? > options:
- you either declare official matches by a special command or command option
- at the end of the match at least one of each team has to confirm the match has to count as official one by command or command option
- all match reports are entered on the league site, but don't count as official matches until a referee confirmed them (similar to the current system beside the automatic reporting)
- ...

These are three examples of handling your first question only. Some others are thinkable too. As mentioned - don't care about the details. I don't see your questions as the main/primary issues.
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Re: Team players?

Post by dexter » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:06 pm

Like strayer said, that is not the main problem or question here. I think it's really just dependent on what the admins want. In the past, the referee spot has kind of been a status between normal player and admin. Many referees get appointed to admin after a while, so basically, referee status has been used as a kind of test phase for a lot of people, to see if they are trustworthy etc. What I'm trying to say, is that there is more to the referee thing than just merely entering matches. Of course, implementing the necessary code for an auto-report system and the related work is also a question.

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Re: Team players?

Post by slime » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:15 am

A neat feature that could be implemented is an optional ability to choose the players that played in a match. That way, if certain referee's preferred not to take the extra time to search out all the players who participated in a match, they wouldn't have to.

But of course, someone would need to code that, and I have the feeling that that won't happen :P

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Re: Team players?

Post by smoooth » Mon May 18, 2009 5:13 am

Little Lep,

I think that is a great idea. It should be incorporated into the gu league site. All players on a team are not equal. It would be nice to know which team members played in the particular matches. The changes to the system shouldn't be too hard to implement.

smoooth

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Re: Team players?

Post by dexter » Mon May 18, 2009 1:30 pm

smoooth wrote:Little Lep,

I think that is a great idea. It should be incorporated into the gu league site. All players on a team are not equal. It would be nice to know which team members played in the particular matches. The changes to the system shouldn't be too hard to implement.

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Re: Team players?

Post by kierra » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:31 pm

I have always thought it would be nice to know who played in a match. As dexter stated, in funleague it is a tad laborious to run down the player list but that is because it is not alphabetical. Obviously, alphabetizing it ( you don't want me to write the code for that, trust me) would eliminate most of that hassle. It just adds a lil more info needed when posting a match....no big thing imnsho. I have posted many, many matches for years now....it's just a part of being referee.
The biggest challenge is always in getting all the information you need to post....time, teams, score and now players. I still think it would be a nice addition. :)
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PS: For me the biggest drawback to posting players is seeing in print the amount of matches I lose for FF. :cry:
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Re: Team players?

Post by FiringSquad » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:00 pm

I suggested a method for making reporting easier, here, that would cater for this type of thing.

If there was enough interest, I was going to suggest it as an enhancement.

Anyway, I thought you might be interested.
(And I wanted to show off my cool new avatar)
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Re: Team players?

Post by snick » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:22 pm

Alas, things are not simple. Some matches will be relatively straightforward
but others... e.g.:

(1) Two players join by accident and play for a few seconds. Then one leaves.

(2) Multiple substitutions.

(3) One player goes nr and another joins.

And so on.

With lots of players, pauses, subs etc., it can get chaotic and hard to remember.
So automation, as dex said, would probably be best. But could it be automated
and catch the nr situation, for example?

If it can be done, though, it would be a very nice addition.

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Re: Team players?

Post by rhapsody » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:10 pm

In my opinion, there are two sides to this arguement. One being, that adding the players to the match page could create turmoil and certain players could be ostracized.

That said, I think the idea as a whole is great. You would be able to see which of your mates played in which match, and while there could be negatives, there are positives as well. You could congradulate the appropriate players if they won a big match for instance.

And about the extra labor issue: If you aren't willing to take an extra 10 seconds out of your day to better the league - I don't think the referee job is the right one for you. Give me the referee position if that's what it takes; I have ten seconds to spare usually.

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Re: Team players?

Post by gentle giant » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:55 am

I think the best way to work this out if it is added, is by showing only team captians, then they can distribute the info however they want.
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Re: Team players?

Post by dexter » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:06 am

gentle giant wrote:I think the best way to work this out if it is added, is by showing only team captians, then they can distribute the info however they want.
What if the team captains didn't play?..

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Re: Team players?

Post by slime » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 pm

dexter wrote:
gentle giant wrote:I think the best way to work this out if it is added, is by showing only team captians, then they can distribute the info however they want.
What if the team captains didn't play?..
I think he meant only showing the team captains who played in the match.

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Re: Team players?

Post by Gabriel G » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:15 pm

snick wrote:Alas, things are not simple. Some matches will be relatively straightforward
but others... e.g.:

(1) Two players join by accident and play for a few seconds. Then one leaves.

(2) Multiple substitutions.

(3) One player goes nr and another joins.

And so on.

With lots of players, pauses, subs etc., it can get chaotic and hard to remember.
So automation, as dex said, would probably be best. But could it be automated
and catch the nr situation, for example?

If it can be done, though, it would be a very nice addition.
The current "automation" used on sites like http://quol.bzflag.bz take the player's names when someone requests lagstats. If lagstats is never requested, or is only done once, we get an inaccurate representation of who played in the match. I agree, there needs to be an easier way to get this done.
Use the Search and Edit buttons as your question may have already been answered/posted.

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Re: Team players?

Post by Saturos » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:09 pm

Sorry to be the moaner, but my opinion on match reporting has always been: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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Re: Team players?

Post by brad » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:26 pm

Saturos wrote:Sorry to be the moaner, but my opinion on match reporting has always been: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
It's not broken, but it can be made a lot better/easier for both refs and players. I certainly welcome the day when match reporting is all automated.

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