Server Filtering (version 2)

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Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by Zehra » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:41 am

Currently we can filter out messages by using chat filters.
We can search for servers we wish to join locally.
We can locally deny certain servers we are able to join with "ServerAccess.txt".

Now what if we could use that to prevent those servers from appearing locally in the server list?
It now becomes easy to filter out servers which aren't wanted.
If you want to use language, filter out the servers which limit it.
If you don't want language filter out the servers which allow it.
Server too laggy, filter it out.

This gives the players more options.
Maybe even game modes could be filtered out? (Hate CTF, but like FFA?, filter CTF maps out..etc.)
Hopefully this would become a feature in the next major release, if not the next release.

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by allejo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:54 am

Servers can already be filtered as of 2.4.x. There's also the ability to add servers to your "favorites," which means they'll be highlighted for you.

Lag or language policies aren't reported to the server list, you'd have to write filters for the servers you find manually.
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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by alfa1 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:18 pm

allejo wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:54 am
Lag or language policies aren't reported to the server list, you'd have to write filters for the servers you find manually.
This is where Servers Grouping and Names and Servers Classification are to help!

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by Ratfink » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:02 pm

It would be kind of neat to make the client ping all the servers in the list so they can be sorted/filtered by latency, but given how few players there are currently, I question how much that software development effort would be worth doing.

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by Zehra » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:30 pm

@allejo
Would a patch for my suggestion be accepted?

@alfa1
The idea is interesting, but there has been some key points which have been raised on those threads which show why the idea does not work.

@Ratfink
This was already suggested in these two threads: Pingtimes in server list & Ping times from reference servers
(One of them contains a link to a patch as well, and this would likely require some updating to work these days.)

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by alfa1 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:05 pm

Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:30 pm
@alfa1
The idea is interesting, but there has been some key points which have been raised on those threads which show why the idea does not work.
And I answered it.

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by Zehra » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:28 pm

@alfa1
Your idea is interesting as I've said, but it really won't apply in this case.
Your idea from my understanding is to make it easier to 'search' for servers, instead of filtering them, which is what I'm looking for.
(They might be similar in purpose and goal, but the way they are implemented is very different.)
A bit more of a random note: We basically 'search' for servers with the current 'filter' implementation. :?

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The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by allejo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 am

Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:41 am
This gives the players more options.
Maybe even game modes could be filtered out? (Hate CTF, but like FFA?, filter CTF maps out..etc.)
Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:30 pm
@allejo
Would a patch for my suggestion be accepted?
Suggestion? What suggestion? You are literally describing what server filters already can do. Since it seems that you can't be bothered to read documentation others (blast in this case) have spent (a lot of) time writing, here you go:
blast wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:12 pm
Show only CTF and rabbit chase servers:
/-ffa,-offa

Use multiple filter sets to show only CTF and rabbit chase servers:
/+ctf/+rabbit
---
Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:28 pm
@alfa1
Your idea is interesting as I've said, but it really won't apply in this case.
Your idea from my understanding is to make it easier to 'search' for servers, instead of filtering them, which is what I'm looking for.
No. His idea actually would apply to this case. Once again, take blast's example for filtering out servers with the word "league" in them. This can be changed to filter out servers with whatever acronyms alfa1 has described in his posts.
blast wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:12 pm
Find league servers with at least one player or one observer (notice the second forward slash that starts a new filter set):
/d)league,p>0/d)league,op>0
---
Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:28 pm
(They might be similar in purpose and goal, but the way they are implemented is very different.)
A bit more of a random note: We basically 'search' for servers with the current 'filter' implementation. :?
What does this even mean?

---

On the topic of server acronyms and ping times...

Server acronyms: this is likely not something the project will pursue, not as acronyms at least. The idea itself of allowing servers to identify as "family friendly" or "official status" is something worth considering. However, it would be done in a much different manner because anyone can put up a server and use acronyms but not abide by them.

Ping times: The idea is valid and worth pursuing as well. If you notice, the patch was actually merged into 2.2 development. However, 2.2 was never released and this feature wasn't backported to 2.4. Don't fall under the impression that the idea was rejected by the project; it's just no one has put effort into adding it to 2.6 development.
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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by Zehra » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:22 pm

allejo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 am
Suggestion? What suggestion? You are literally describing what server filters already can do. Since it seems that you can't be bothered to read documentation others (blast in this case) have spent (a lot of) time writing, here you go:
blast wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:12 pm
Show only CTF and rabbit chase servers:
/-ffa,-offa

Use multiple filter sets to show only CTF and rabbit chase servers:
/+ctf/+rabbit
---
Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:41 am
We can locally deny certain servers we are able to join with "ServerAccess.txt".

Now what if we could use that to prevent those servers from appearing locally in the server list?
It now becomes easy to filter out servers which aren't wanted.
If you want to use language, filter out the servers which limit it.
If you don't want language filter out the servers which allow it.
Server too laggy, filter it out.
I'm suggesting servers which are added as "deny someserver-someplace.com" in "ServerAccess.txt" don't appear in the listings.
I'm sorry I wasn't too clear on this, but this is what I'm suggesting.

/****************************************************************************************************/
allejo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 am
Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:28 pm
@alfa1
Your idea is interesting as I've said, but it really won't apply in this case.
Your idea from my understanding is to make it easier to 'search' for servers, instead of filtering them, which is what I'm looking for.
No. His idea actually would apply to this case. Once again, take blast's example for filtering out servers with the word "league" in them. This can be changed to filter out servers with whatever acronyms alfa1 has described in his posts.
blast wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:12 pm
Find league servers with at least one player or one observer (notice the second forward slash that starts a new filter set):
/d)league,p>0/d)league,op>0
From the examples I read in [Feedback Needed] Server List Filter Documentation, they all are on "finding" a server, not filtering them out, which is what I was looking for.
No examples for filtering out servers were provided, unless I'm mistaken.

Alfa1 suggests that we use the acronyms he has mentioned as a way of searching for servers.
I am not sure how his idea is related to using and apply in the case of "ServerAccess.txt" for servers which are in the 'deny' section and not having them appear on the list.

/****************************************************************************************************/
allejo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 am
Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:28 pm
(They might be similar in purpose and goal, but the way they are implemented is very different.)
A bit more of a random note: We basically 'search' for servers with the current 'filter' implementation. :?
What does this even mean?
This was mostly in reply to alfa1 and as a general note.
Having acronyms and not having certain servers appear both are meant to make it easier to find servers players want.
(Similar in purpose and in goal.)
Using acronyms to sort of create easy searching, vs having certain servers not appear in the list is the different implementation.

The part of searching vs filtering is this.
We use the 'filter" feature to basically show us the servers we are looking for, so it is kind of like a web search except more specific.
Filtering, in my opinion, would be removing unwanted servers.
So if someone wants to use the language, they could simply 'filter' out servers which prohibit language.
Visa versa, if someone doesn't want any language, they can 'filter' out servers which allow it.

/****************************************************************************************************/
allejo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 am
On the topic of server acronyms and ping times...

Server acronyms: this is likely not something the project will pursue, not as acronyms at least. The idea itself of allowing servers to identify as "family friendly" or "official status" is something worth considering. However, it would be done in a much different manner because anyone can put up a server and use acronyms but not abide by them.

Ping times: The idea is valid and worth pursuing as well. If you notice, the patch was actually merged into 2.2 development. However, 2.2 was never released and this feature wasn't backported to 2.4. Don't fall under the impression that the idea was rejected by the project; it's just no one has put effort into adding it to 2.6 development.
I did suggest that something could be done in a league format for "family friendly" or "official" status.
Kind of similar how people can't advertise their server as an "official" league server or even a league server.

As for ping times, this was said before:
Zehra wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:30 pm
This was already suggested in these two threads: Pingtimes in server list & Ping times from reference servers
(One of them contains a link to a patch as well, and this would likely require some updating to work these days.)
I probably should have added the fact that it wasn't rejected, but this was an oversight from my part.

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
There's always something to remember and it's been a game I love. ~Zehra
The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
There's a difference between knowing my name and knowing me, one shows respect to my name and the other is to who I am. ~Zehra

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by Zehra » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:39 pm

To add more background, there was this thread Server Filtering.

Basically what I said is listed below: (Adjustments made for better reading.)
Zehra wrote: I've thought over time of how people can filter servers, we can search for ones we want, but what if we could filter out the ones we don't want?
The goal is not to search for which servers one wants, but to remove the ones someone does not want.
It would make searching the list server much easier by providing a better way of searching.
I'm thinking it would probably work somewhat like the silence list, and omit servers which one wants to filter out.

So imagine being able to do this:

Code: Select all

set filteredServer0 "server-domain.com"
And having that server specifically not show on the list for oneself.
Depending on preferences, different servers can be filtered out.

-Zehra
The same thing would be done here, only difference is that instead of having the config file containing servers which wouldn't appear, it would be using "ServerAccess.txt" to check which servers are in the "deny" section and remove them from appearing in the results at all.

I'm sorry my posts were not to clear on what I was asking for.

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
There's always something to remember and it's been a game I love. ~Zehra
The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
There's a difference between knowing my name and knowing me, one shows respect to my name and the other is to who I am. ~Zehra

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by blast » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:26 pm

ServerAccess.txt is already a niche feature that I'm sure very few people even know exists. You're welcome to add that feature to your client though, or run the server list through a local web script that filters out servers you don't want (the latter is really quite easy, the former is probably fairly easy as well).
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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by alfa1 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am

I am very glad that, finally, and specially, the bad language (and similar bad behaviours) issue can catch some interest from the project to possibly make some classification system in the future. Talking with another developer, yesterday, also told me that this issue (and the others mentioned above) was always of interest within a long-term plan. It would have been nice, though, regarding to my topics, that this interest had been showed to me before (even some messages were confusing).

I want to remind you all that I don't use 'acronyms' but 'codes' (in this system, an acronym is a code but not necessarely a code is an acronym; note the square brackets):
alfa1 wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:12 pm
I suggest name/title convention to make them more organized and identifiable:
{{<brand>|<host>'s Servers}}: <map> {(<author>)} {- }[<continent/subcontinent code>] {- }{[more-specific-region code]} {- }[<classification code>] .

(...)

Examples:
- brand: 'Happy Tank: Party FFA - [Europe] - [FF]'.
- host (player): "Captain Brave's Servers: Sea War (smarty octopus) [North Am] [Virginia] [FF]".
(Due to some problems stated on the classification topic, lately, '[PMFF]' is replacing '[FF]'.)

Just in case, I want to point out that 'continent/subcontinent' and 'more-specific-region' codes help with the lag issue too (together with the servers lags list), identifying the region where the player will have a relative better lag.

I would call 'Official', 'League' and maybe other special words 'special identifiers' (or, maybe, 'class identifiers'); they would represent a special state of the server and would not require brackets.

Why do I insist with this nomenclature? Because, whether in the future this will be managed automatically by code or not ( remember my first topic ), some visual indicators should still be used (if both systems are not directly co-existing). Apart of this, it's important to note that not every system has to be automatized/informatized, but some systems require, necessarely, to be manual.

Regarding negative filters Zehra wants ('negative' as in they specifically hide unwanted servers), I tried time ago negative regex searchs but was not able to make it work in the short time used (not sure if it is not fully implemented into BZ or I was not doing it rightly; important: a server filter has nowadays a limit of 42 characters (v. 2.4.11; ChangeLog 2.4.14)). BTW, if his intention is to hide some few servers which use bad words/acronyms on the title/other fields (a good intention shared by lot of people), this could be avoided, by the project, not allowing them (bad words/acronyms) on the servers list, and, after it, by using the nowadays state of ServerAccess.txt, he could keep not letting local players join them, solving the problem.

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by JeffM » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:24 pm

Your classifications are naive and based on incorrect data and are unlocalizable and un-maintainable. Much is changing in the way the software works.

While there have been long term plans to provide more data to players about the server, and some of that does include more data about leagues, maps, and other classifications, it's all going to be done in a VERY VERY different way then you are talking about. These ideas and plans have been bounced round for years and years, much longer than you've been here for.

There is no back-end software to support this stuff yet, there are many layers of foundational software that has to be built before we can even DISCUSS what data to put in the system ( new web system, new group management, new list data formats). None of this is ready now, it all may not even be done by 2.6.

"Acronyms" will not be used, Real data fields with industry standard localization and regional codes will be used. Leagues and "official" groups will be tied into and managed by a totally new group management system. data that must be set in a specific format will not be shoved into an existing string, it would be given it's own data field and own localized display area in the list view.

Your discussion of this is mostly confusing to people. Your specific ideas are not something the project is going to implement or support. You proposing specific data and fields is not constructive since the system will never work the way you think it will.

The project has had it's own plans for a long time. They have not been implemented because there is so much back-end work required to do it, but people are working on those back-end systems when they want to. Let them do the work, see what services end up being provided, THEN you can see how you can fit into it. You can always pay attention to development as it happens, but note that it is slow because people work on it in there free time.

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by Zehra » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:26 am

alfa1 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am
I am very glad that, finally, and specially, the bad language (and similar bad behaviours) issue can catch some interest from the project to possibly make some classification system in the future. Talking with another developer, yesterday, also told me that this issue (and the others mentioned above) was always of interest within a long-term plan. It would have been nice, though, regarding to my topics, that this interest had been showed to me before (even some messages were confusing).
@alfa1, please carefully read what people are suggesting...
It was to filter out servers, not to change the way you search for them.
New classifications will come, but they are not what you are suggesting.
alfa1 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am
I want to remind you all that I don't use 'acronyms' but 'codes' (in this system, an acronym is a code but not necessarely a code is an acronym; note the square brackets):
Very few people use it and most people are wondering why servers have some weird text and brackets on them.
alfa1 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am
(Due to some problems stated on the classification topic, lately, '[PMFF]' is replacing '[FF]'.)
If it isn't working, it probably means you are doing something wrong.
It also sounds like you want to run some "official alfa1 approved servers" or something.
alfa1 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am
Just in case, I want to point out that 'continent/subcontinent' and 'more-specific-region' codes help with the lag issue too (together with the servers lags list), identifying the region where the player will have a relative better lag.
Continent/subcontinent isn't an accurate indication of lag, you'd need ping times for accurate lag.
Available in a patch, it just requires some updating...
alfa1 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am
I would call 'Official', 'League' and maybe other special words 'special identifiers' (or, maybe, 'class identifiers'); they would represent a special state of the server and would not require brackets.
They also had a website to reference which ones were official.
No need for some 'special' way of identifying them.
alfa1 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am
Regarding negative filters Zehra wants ('negative' as in they specifically hide unwanted servers), I tried time ago negative regex searchs but was not able to make it work in the short time used (not sure if it is not fully implemented into BZ or I was not doing it rightly; important: a server filter has nowadays a limit of 42 characters (v. 2.4.11; ChangeLog 2.4.14)).
The documentation only mentioned how to 'find' servers, not make some not appear.
I would have done that if it were possible, but it isn't.
alfa1 wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:12 pm
Why do I insist with this nomenclature? Because, whether in the future this will be managed automatically by code or not ( remember my first topic ), some visual indicators should still be used (if both systems are not directly co-existing). Apart of this, it's important to note that not every system has to be automatized/informatized, but some systems require, necessarely, to be manual.
Already it was said that your idea wasn't going to happen.
It is coming in the future, but we just don't know when, and it isn't going to be your suggestion.
alfa1 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am
BTW, if his intention is to hide some few servers which use bad words/acronyms on the title/other fields (a good intention shared by lot of people), this could be avoided, by the project, not allowing them (bad words/acronyms) on the servers list, and, after it, by using the nowadays state of ServerAccess.txt, he could keep not letting local players join them, solving the problem.
Whose intentions are you referring too???
(If you are referring to me, you are assuming a lot.)

/****************************************************************************************************/
JeffM wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:24 pm
"Acronyms" will not be used, Real data fields with industry standard localization and regional codes will be used. Leagues and "official" groups will be tied into and managed by a totally new group management system. data that must be set in a specific format will not be shoved into an existing string, it would be given it's own data field and own localized display area in the list view.
Exactly what would be the differences involved with 'league' and 'official' groups and what is an 'official' group? (In the future.)
On a related note, can we expect new fields for game modes and types? (custom, 1 flag ctf, htf, race to cap, tutorial..etc..)
This way it can become possible to better define maps and game modes.

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
There's always something to remember and it's been a game I love. ~Zehra
The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
There's a difference between knowing my name and knowing me, one shows respect to my name and the other is to who I am. ~Zehra

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Re: Server Filtering (version 2)

Post by allejo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:54 am

As project developers have already specified the action plan and there's no more useful information to be said, here's the summary:

- The project does have plans on being able to categorize servers at a protocol level in either 2.6 or 2.8
- ServerAccess.txt is a feature that not many people know about and is something that can be done locally or as a client modification for the ones more familiar with code. However, filters are a documented feature and is what's recommended for finding servers that fit your likes.

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