Server List question - different version of bzflag

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trpted
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Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by trpted » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:29 pm

Currently in Bzflag, the list server list only servers that you can connect to.

But in for example OpenTTD, even while you can not connect to the sever - the list shows what version the server will only accept.

Why can't BZflag do the same?

Please and thanks
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Zehra
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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by Zehra » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:24 am

I'm not 100% sure if I understand your question, but probably the answer to it, is due to the way BZFlag is designed.

There is basically only two release types: Major and Minor.

Major is when the protocol is changed to prevent previous clients and servers from connecting with the latest ones.
This is what happened when we moved from 1.7 to 1.10.x and from 1.10.x to 2.x and from 2.x to 2.4.x.
These were major releases and also why a 2.x client could not connect to a 2.4.x server and visa versa.

Minor releases when smaller changes which do not affect protocol are made.
Please be aware that by minor releases, this does not mean that everything remains the same, there may be some non-compatible changes, such as API or game client features, but so the 'protocol' remains the same.
(It is why we can introduce new functions to fire world weapons, while we cannot simply have team switching added within a minor release, as the current protocol does not support team-switching on the fly.[At the time of this writing it is 2.4.x])
trpted wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:29 pm
Currently in Bzflag, the list server list only servers that you can connect to.

But in for example OpenTTD, even while you can not connect to the sever - the list shows what version the server will only accept.

Why can't BZflag do the same?

Please and thanks
Now the reason why this will not be done is due to a number of factors:

1. It would be a step backwards as what would one gain by listing servers one is not able to connect to?
2. It sounds like 'limiting' a server to certain client versions and above, which cannot be done by default.[At the time of this writing.]
3. Lack of real use, having previous major releases being able to be listed would not benefit anyone.
4. Being able to limit servers to specific minor client releases will likely never be done by the project.(Could be done via a plug-in though.)

I may be mistaken on this though, but I'm pretty certain that this concept will not be implemented.

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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by blast » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:05 pm

What would be the point in showing servers that you cannot connect to?
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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by trpted » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:30 am

If not with-in BZFlag, on the a server list site - like on http://bzstats.strayer.de/servers/stats/?lang=en

To tell people what other servers exist and where the users are.

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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by tainn » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:25 am

Once a server goes offline, it is anyone's guess when and if it is coming back.

So what you would essentially be proposing is for there to be a list that would display all of the servers throughout the history that were online at one point. Maybe filters can be used such as eliminating some servers from the display that were offline for more than a specified amount of time.

It would be doable, but someone would have to make it their project, which usually arises from interest of seeing some sort of use in it all together.

The uses I personally see range from nostalgia from reading some of the names, the feedback on when some server has last been seen online, perhaps a chance for someone to find a map that they really liked long ago that used to be hosted but now isn't so they could decide to continue hosting it themselves, etc. I can find a few ways this could be useful, especially liking this last named factor, as remembering a map is the first step towards bringing it back to life.

But as said, someone would have to keep actively grabbing the stats and formulate meaningful displays that can be filtered based on certain criteria, almost definitely time of being last seen online included.

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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by blast » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:01 pm

Sorry, I don't understand the complaint then. Strayer's BZStats site does list the servers for all versions of BZFlag. (It just incorrectly lists 2.5 servers as 2.4.x)
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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by tainn » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm

Pretty much, though I assume their wording was off.

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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by Zehra » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:09 pm

trpted wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:30 am
If not with-in BZFlag, on the a server list site - like on http://bzstats.strayer.de/servers/stats/?lang=en

To tell people what other servers exist and where the users are.
This is pretty vague and sort of conflicts of what you said before.
I may be mistaken with this, but it sort of now sounds like you may want somewhat of a backup or cache feature.
BZFlag already provides a cache feature for the list server, which lasts up to 30 days.
By going to Options->Cache Settings, you will find the 'Server List Cache' option, which allows 'saving' the list for some time.

We also are aware of where users are, by viewing the list server, as it displays the most popular servers on the top of the list. (By default.)

If your concern is more about protocol break, it has been done, and no BZFlag did not die due to it.
From the player side, most of us will download a second client, and server owners will decide when to stop running 2.4.x servers.
In term, everything will work out, like it always has, so no worries from that side either.

It is hard to understand your overall goal, as none of us know the 'why' of it, only the part of 'adding' it has been really mentioned.

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
There's always something to remember and it's been a game I love. ~Zehra
The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
There's a difference between knowing my name and knowing me, one shows respect to my name and the other is to who I am. ~Zehra

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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by trpted » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:49 pm

At https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=84733
Why are the other servers listed in the first place that a player can not connect to unless the same version? Red vs green.

Note when you answer the question, be sure to exclude (not include) NewGRFs. Green vs yellow.
The answer provided is
Because often players are looking for a particular server (eg they want to play with a friend), and it is useful for them to know what newgrfs or game version they need. If unjoinable servers were simply hidden, it would be far harder for players to diagnose the problem.
Ignoring the part about newgrfs, does this help explain why I am asking: Why can't BZflag do the same?

Please and thank you

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Re: Server List question - different version of bzflag

Post by blast » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:06 pm

That is not a change we will make. We don't often break protocol, and when we do there are announcements. The community is small enough that word gets around fast.
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