Language

[I_Died_Once]

I was playing a game the other night, and went to "pass" the flag to the center, cause I was seconds away from annihilation. (Y'all know how that goes )

So I told my team "pass coming" but I accidentally left off the P is pass. I was typing quickly, playing - all that. So the server censors out my *pass. Whatever.

This in turn spawned everyone into cuss mode, and people were cussing for the sake of cussing, showing that they can get around the language filter. Cool stuff, I'm the LAST person to get offended by anything.

Of course someone else started complaining, and everyone cut it out.

What got me is how can people get all uptight over language while playing such a violent game. It's OK to blow each other into smithereens - but heaven forbid you use a four letter word.

I know and completely understand that it's (whoever's) server, and their rule goes. I am not argueing that, but the fundamental reasoning behind likewise rules. It's a good thing no one can tap into my microphone and hear what I be saying out loud while playing - I'd be banned in thirty seconds, cause I yell and cuss at most everyone. I can understand the arguement that children might be playing - but if you're gonna protect them from such content, I don't think a battletank shoot em up like BZ Flag is the place you would want your kids gaming in the first place. Not that I'm an expert on such things, nor am I trying to tell anyone how to run their server, or how to raise their children.

I also recognize that BZ and respective servers are NOT chat rooms.

I reckon I just think and work differently than most folks. The REALLY funny thingis the next server down the list says stuff like "Darth Vader smoked some bad stuff sold to him by _______" and "Darth Vader smoked crack and died of a heart attack"

Go figure

Much love, and GAME ON!!!

[rr]

What really annoys me is when certain people start complaining when the language filter does its job and $%^$#$$ shows up on the screen. Somehow they get offended by random characters.

I understand the desire to shelter your kids from inappropriate language, but your kids aren't going to learn anything bad from a random set of symbols. So whats the point of complaining when they show up in the console?

[ducatiwannabe]

Well what's the point of cursing anyway? It's very immature and it helps nothing. All it does is make people mad. It's just for people that can't control their tongue (or fingers) when they get mad. It doesn't really hurt if you can't see the words, but what's the point? It isn't "fun" to say bad stuff......it will only get you in to trouble. Refrain from cursing and swearing and things will go better. I see no reason to complain if the server sensors the bad word, but if the person keeps doing it so it's hard to read chat or something then I ask them to stop.

[JeffM]

ducatiwannabe , you can turn it around and say it's only words, so they don't hurt you. There are no "bad" words just rules that people apply as morality.

You can't come off and apply your morality to others just as much as they can to you. Some people find it a valid form of expression, some are afraid of words and the ideas they may cause.

It's allways relitive. If the server is considered to be a famialy server and the language is toned down to be less "adult" then that's fine and those on it should observe those rules, if at least in honor of the server ownner who has so kindly put up the bandwith. If a server is intended for a more adult audience then by the same rights those users can do what they want, as long as it's cool with the server owner.

Sadly there is not a way to distiguish easaly between the servers now except for description/reputation, but that again is a larger problem of ether the list server/game server, or perhaps even the internet as a whole. it would be nice to have a rating for a server, and parents be able to lock kids out of servers, that would be a good tool for parents to manage thier kids. As it is up to the parents to do that, not the rest of us.

If you don't like those types of words, and your on a server that dosn't care, then it's up to you to not see them, use silence if you must, or jsut don't read the text.

don't mean to rant, just want to mention that it goes both ways. And as allways go where it's the most fun for you

[Workaphobia]

What got me is how can people get all uptight over language while playing such a violent game. It's OK to blow each other into smithereens - but heaven forbid you use a four letter word.

If it were Grand Theft Auto played online, I could understand why it would be stupid to ban swearing. But this is BZFlag, and the exploding tank animations aren't particularly violent or grotesque. There's no reason for parents to prohibit their children from playing BZ, unless the server is unmoderated.

[JeffM]

bzflag is an action combat first person shooter, people will play it however they find most fun... but yest most servers are famialy oriented.

[bezos bux]

I've been on servers where you get kicked by an admin if you swear more than a certain amount of times. i try not to swear, but sometimes this game gets me such a rush of adrenaline that i have to let my anger out somehow, but my mom's in the room and before i know it, i let out a bomb on screen. some of the ppl say "language, cow" or "watch the language", but sometimes i can't help it and i just let it go. that's the way life is.

not to say i allow swearing. if someone is swearing too much (more than once a minute) i do occasionally say, "language" if someone doesn't before me. just a standpoint.

[RPG]

I control swearing and have never done it on BZFlag because I know little kids play it and I just don't want any trouble

hunt = the anti swear.

[The Red Baron]

hunt does not = anti-swear

hunt = the only thing you can do about a problem if your not an admin.

hunt = make the hunted really ticked off.

[The Psycho Chicken]

I warm this topic up, because the search for "language and filter" produces this thread as the closest match, IMO.

Has it been mentioned, that the language filter is an annoyance in itself, sometimes?

Situation: I play quietely most of the time. When I start to communicate with the team in request for support or to give a hint, or even, when I intervene, to calm down two players who start to exchange offenses, I get confronted with @!"§??+* or similar in my _own_ phrases... Filtered are words like

"But", "it", "pass" (the flag), "mother" (while asking a boy who liked his dinner about who had made it)... and a dozen other, normal words as used in normal conversation.

I understand the bad-language-problem. But it _SUCKS_ to get corrected by an admin for "bad language" while all he sees is the language filter's lovely creations.

The filter-problem, too, needs an urgent fix. Sorry.

[Guest]

A few things:
1. A few times, I have been warned by admins because they see random characters come up in their console like "*&%$". They assume i am swearing. If I am swearing, then nobody can see what I said, so why do they need to tell me not to swear? And on some occasions I actually typed in some random characters, and they still shouted at me...
2. Maybe, on the server list, near where it says how many players are on a server and whether or not jumping and rico are on, it could say whethere or not a badwords file is in use... But even so, you could run bzfs to use an empty bad words file to get around that... Although I don't see why anyone would...
3. I kinda agree with I_Died_Once, that the game is about blowing stuff up, so where is the harm in a little swearing, but then again, the swearing can easily get out of hand... I guess it's best to be safe rather than sorry.

[ducatiwannabe]

Really, I don't care that much about the swearing. I can mute them if they get too filthy. And as long as they don't dodge the filter I'm ok. I just hope that some 8 year old kid isn't at the server.

[cookiecutter]

If I am swearing, then nobody can see what I said, so why do they need to tell me not to swear?

Because if they don't stop you you may continue, which may cause others to do it as well, which will start to spam the server. The way I see it they are nipping it in the bud. Also if you say something like %^&* you cookiecutter (I'm sure you wouldn't ), then that will be offensive and rude, even though I can't actually see what you said.


My run in with the language filter was actually quite funny. I had just been killed, and I wasn't having a great day. So I a said *sob* as in crying. But the language filter blocked it out, so everyone assumed I had swore. So I had to explain by saying "no ess oh bee as in crying". I'm still not sure if anyone believed me.

[Guest]

Because if they don't stop you you may continue, which may cause others to do it as well, which will start to spam the server. The way I see it they are nipping it in the bud. Also if you say something like %^&* you cookiecutter (I'm sure you wouldn't ), then that will be offensive and rude, even though I can't actually see what you said.

I can understand if someone says it more than once or if its something like "*&^% you <person>" or whatever.
But I just said one swear word which looked like *&^%.
They started shouting at me to not swear. Which is then when I typed in some random charachters and promptly got myself kicked... Heh.

[Legolas]

I really just don't understand why someone should swear. I mean, someone must really lack self control to type in cusses. Why can't they just swear....out loud?

[L4m3r]

I really get annoyed when the filter suprises me and the admins yell at me. This usually happens at Secretplace, and the admins there are cool about it (and sympathetic perhaps?) when I say that I wasn't aware of the word... but it's still irritating. At secretplace, they seem to have blocked any remotely-colorful language.

As I've mentioined before, I once said "rat farts" on a different server, and "fart" was censored. Honestly, I think the type of 8 year-old kid who needs to be sheltered from swearing would probably use the word "fart" on a regular basis.

I've always found the idea of swear filtering rather ironic- labeling a word as "bad" perpetuates its existance as a swear word. That is not our problem, though.

I think the best solution to the swearing problem is a client-side filter. The (few) parents that care can disallow whatever words, thereby making their child safe on any server.

[toaster]

I have to laugh. I've asked before, but never gotten an answer: There are probably 100,000 words in the English language alone, and only a tiny percentage are "swear" words. Is your command of the language so poor that those words are the only ones you can use?

Yes, some of us are pretty strict about swearing on some of the servers. I seldom ban anyone for swearing, unless they continue it after I've warned and kicked them. Even then, bans usually only last a few days.

There have been a number of servers online that promoted "adult language" and often only a small number of people regularly played them, if any. Some resorted to running bots to get higher on the server list to attract players. Some of them have been taken down now.

The escalation of swearing when someone is mad gets others upset. And I cannot for the life of me understand why when someone has the high score, leading by dozens (or hundreds) of points, they feel they have to curse at some noob who got lucky and killed them. Plus, the escalation often results in the trolls that start with the racist and ethnic hate comments that are really just wrong. And spamming, etc.

Most players out there don't want to experience being sworn at when they're learning the ropes. Many don't want to experience it even when they've been around a bit.

[Gerbil]

A lot of eurosentiment here about morality but in polite society it is usually preferable to accomodate those publicly who are offended by personal expressions that not all agree on.

It's called "manners".

As for the "not forcing morality" on others--being "immoral" IS forcing morality--just as the other extreme does.

Which brings us back to "mutual respect" and "politness".

It's not about "political correctness" but rather about showing respect for someone else.

Somehow all this got turned into a "free speech"issue.

Kind of like the guy molested 36,000 kids in fifty years and had a website up to express his views on why it was ok.

If you try to make a "correct rule" you will have to let him speak. If you have common sense you know exactly what to do with his "free speech".

"Lawless societies have no freedom..or Xena either"

[TD-Linux]

Quote from WHAMMO!:

Only stupid or ignorant people resort to crude language to express themselves.

If they really have to swear, they should do it out loud. CRTs recieve bad langauge and insults better than I do.
I suppose you could say that you have a LCD for an excuse, but then.... ummm... I'll let someone else come up with something for that.

On servers where I am admin, here is what happens, in order. If the word is worse than 'darn':
Warn
Skip to here if swear:
Kill
Kick
Ban 5 min
Ban 30 min
Ban 2 hr
Ban day
Ban week
I don't ban longer in case someone else uses same computer.

[H0ley]

I also recognize that BZ and respective servers are NOT chat rooms.

Well it's not a chatroom but some of us like to be social while playing. If we werent social, I might as play a single player game. I think you guys are taking the whole language thing too seriously. There's more language in an Elementry school playground then in this game. You guys arent "protecting" them from anything they havent heard before. I've rather have kids cursing here in a game then out on the streets. Most of the offensive cursing comes from 10-16 year olds anyhow.

[Gerbil]

Comes back to the whole courtesy thing again.

Also, the language often isn't just distasteful words but distasteful words used to describe things that really shouldn't be with younger ones around.

Ironically, tose of us who prefer not to have to hear graphic language come on to be social too.

Is swearing a requuisite to be social?

[H0ley]

Ironically, tose of us who prefer not to have to hear graphic language come on to be social too.

Is swearing a requuisite to be social?

Huh? There's a huge difference between "graphic language" and being social....

[Guest]

I agree with Holey that these days, a 5 yr old will tell you to **** *** - without censoring it. Believe me, it's happened to me.

But although, bad language is not really necessary, or polite, or good manners, etc, it IS a part of life. At a pub, guys swear. In the playground, the 15yr olds swear. On the roads, angry drivers swear.
It's a fact of life.

I am 16. I know a fair few swear words. But when I was 10, I knew more than half what I know now. It's not like I learnt it all in the last year.

So, as long as you don't personally attack the kiddies, swearing is not such a big deal.

If you want to have a "Family Server" Great. Well done on you!
If you want to allow swearing on your server, then do so.

I have not learnt any swear words on bzflag, that I did not know when I was 13. And I am not the rude kid, slashing tyres, etc.
I'm 16 and still get shouted at if I swear at home. I'm the gentleman who holds open doors for the teachers at school.
So If I knew all these swear words when I was 13, most other kids know them too, and a whole lot else besides.

[ducatiwannabe]

But although, bad language is not really necessary, or polite, or good manners, etc, it IS a part of life. At a pub, guys swear. In the playground, the 15yr olds swear. On the roads, angry drivers swear.
It's a fact of life.

It may be part of life, but it is a part that could be changed if people tried. It's like smoking or drinking or anything like that. If you are hooked have some self-control and fix it. It doesn't GAIN anything for you or anybody else does it? In fact, it just hurts you.

[toaster]

What 5 year olds do and don't know depends completely on their family and their social/school situation. Not all 5 year olds have the same language set. Not even all 10 year olds. Yes, by age 15/16, the gap narrows. I know of several that play that are home-schooled.

You left out something important: if a 15 year old at school tells a 16 year old to "**** ***" he's probably going to get punched or knocked on his butt. He quickly learns how/when to use the language. He's certainly not going to walk up to some rough-looking 20 year old on a street corner and insult him unless he's really stuipd. He's not going to stand around and announce for everyone to hear that he's mad because he can't swear because the 20 year old won't let him. That would just earn him another set of bruises. Instead, he's going to shut his mouth, or be slightly more polite, or go away.

That's one key difference. If you just let out the occasional swear word while playing, it's not typically directed at someone in particular. "Dang!" is venting frustration.

But saying "**** You" is not the same. It's a direct insult to "You," another specific player. And kids learn real, real fast that the anonymity and geo-seperation in online games makes it real easy to insult people and offend them, with little or no consequences. And we know of a lot of trolls in this game who do it just to make other people mad.

And most youths escalate things quickly. I've watched exchanges in bzflag that in less than 10 messages were of the worst sort of insults I've ever seen. Anyone who said some of those things directly to my face would find themselves needing medical assistance.

With no consequences to suffer, many of these kids just go there immediately. And I suspect that many of them do it because they aren't capable of getting away with it at school - they'd get the snot beat out of them.

So personally, I don't see anything wrong with the restrictions. It's easy enough to really insult someone if you feel you absolutely have to, without resorting to swear words. If you have any grasp at all of language. And frustration? I see things like "klajsdfkl;fjkl;asdjklj" all the time. I allow that. It's just a pounding on the homerow keys, and it gets the message across without resorting to four-letter words.