Section 2: Spreading talent among the teams.

Please discuss issues concerning the Ducati League here. This is the liaison between league players and the league council.
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tokimi
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Post by tokimi » Tue May 16, 2006 1:48 am

Section 2: Spreading talent among the teams.

Master-pupil method
This is a tough section to comment on, because the suggestions presented
(at leased ones I know of) have been tough to implement. Many require very
in depth action from the more experienced players. The first one that comes to
mind is from a discussion with Admirarch at 05/15/06 on #bz-inc:
#bz-inc irc logs wrote: .
.
Admirarch: Seriously though, it's largely down to experienced and active
players founding teams and recruiting not so experienced active players
Admirarch: The council can do whatever the council does but I see that as the
key
tokimi: Admirarch: another factor, is making new players experienced
tokimi: which doesn't exactly mean experienced players teaching
tokimi: but for them to just play enough
Admirarch: In my experience, and I've seen this from both the inexperienced and
experienced point of view, that's the way it works best
.
.
That does seem to be the tried and true method for creating new teams and
getting new players integrated. Just look at bzi/(what ever name they are on
now) and see their success. I do remember the days when I was a soft
little n00b and was taken under the wing of jomojo in TAA (ah, the good old
days). Of course, compared to some I still am a noob, but what ever ;). So
yes that is the usually method for bringing spreading talent around.

However, there is a fundamental problem with this. The recent advent of the
'power teams' 3-4 of the best players teaming up and racing their way to the
top of the hill. It is rare to get these guys to stop and help new players,
and even more rare for them to stick around long enough to see their 'pupils'
far enough. How ever there are many that would help out the willing newbie.



The self stratification
If we get a uniform distribution of experienced players and new players, with
the occasional power team blowing through. It isn't hard to see that teams
would simply not match the power team. Beyond this, it really is difficult to
force people to help the new players. This is an aspect that we should
probably really investigate and discuss. It cannot be ignored, and probably
leads to a key aspect to the future of the league.
The very young do not always do as they are told, and the very old never listen any way.

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Post by sussi » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:01 pm

make new players experienced?
Together with matrixe i created a HOWTO/wiki about ducati-teamwork,
A Wiki for the league is a good plus for newbies.
If somebody wants to join a team he should be able to apply for a team (only for a single team)

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zongo
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Post by zongo » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:42 pm

I was one of the first ready to drop dub leadership for a while and train a bunch of new players with Jr. DUB. I am also ready and willing to do that now. I can actively train a team of 3-4 players (not more). If some good players are willing to do so we can have ~20 new active players very soon who can bring more people in turn. tokimi's post is important imo, we should have a look at this option as well.
visit http://1vs1.bzleague.com
and dub's site http://dub.bzleague.com
join #dub channel on irc!

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Post by SportChick » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:13 pm

For the record, several teams are already doing this in a matter of sorts. Bz Inc., Untamed and SNT are all taking in newer players, with an eye toward training them up and having a lot of fun in the process.
Image

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Post by tokimi » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:27 pm

A wiki may help, I am not sure though of its effectiveness. There is a
HUGE difference between reading some ones ideas on how ducati should
be played, and actually playing the game and learning that way.
Regardless of the fact that every one of us learned by example in bz,
it is almost impossible to include all the variations that you see in a
ducati match, especially counting random maps. Oh, and yes, every one
in the league now learned via examples of others, save the very original
players.

What do you meen sussy, when you say
sussi wrote: If somebody wants to join a team he should be able to apply for a team
(only for a single team)
Any body can solicit a team and ask to join. And no one is stopping noobs
and veterens alike from joining or creating teams. So I really do not
understand what you are saying here.
The very young do not always do as they are told, and the very old never listen any way.

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Post by sussi » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:47 am

A teamleader can INVITE, he has a button for that.
a player should have a button too APPLY.
To avoid that he apply for every team, the number should limited, imho to allow to apply to a single team. Look at all the post " i'm a noob, want to join a team." Answer:"ask on the battlefield"

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tokimi
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Post by tokimi » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:22 pm

Whats wrong with just sending a bzmail to the captain of the team of
interest? But as a team captain my self, I preffer to see my applicants
in the field before accepting them to the team..... And bzmail seems to
do the job well.....
The very young do not always do as they are told, and the very old never listen any way.

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Post by sussi » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:17 pm

i only got 1 or 2 times such bzmails. And than it was directed to all teams. The button makes it easier.
The first half of the wiki is already ready.

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My respect to all trainers!

Post by goblin » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:26 pm

SportChick wrote:For the record, several teams are already doing this in a matter of sorts. Bz Inc., Untamed and SNT are all taking in newer players, with an eye toward training them up and having a lot of fun in the process.
This is so cool! I decided for myself that if I ever got good at BZFlag/Ducati, I would try to form a team where one member would always be a newbie/trainee - so it's a positive surprise to see that you guys are already doing this!

You have my respect!

Now I might even apply for a team before I am good at playing.
Tank you!

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Post by wizard » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:05 am

In all our last 4 matches the team that would have won after 15 min has won the 30 min match. In one match however it was close and just 1:0. We could even out to 1:1 after 20min but still lost 3:1 :oops:

So no changes to the 15 min results there.

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Post by mistake » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:14 am

Me myself i get foolish after 15 minutes no matter what the score is :D
mistake

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Post by Talisman » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:07 am

I am always foolish, and talented, but no way of spreading my talent until cloning is downloadable at sourceforge.net, revolution #11

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Nice attitude encourages new players

Post by chtibidasse » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:16 am

SportChick wrote:Bz Inc., Untamed and SNT are all taking in newer players, with an eye toward training them up and having a lot of fun in the process.
This is the best way to enjoy playing.

My best moments on bzf are linked with "transmitting something": when experienced players gave me my first tips (thanks a lot again to, for instance, Leviathan, Catay and Zongo!).

This week-end I experienced a new joy: looking for some 1vs1 matches I found 2 newbies, even newest than me... I was so happy to ask "may I give you some tips?.." Well, I blowed myself up a couple of time and they laughed a lot... :lol: But I felt good to welcome new players as best as I could.

It's so hard when you begin and are shot before understanding what happens... Newbies have to be encouraged a lot!

What helped me to stay (even when my score was around 15-150 =135...):
- tips from "old" players.
- be welcomed in Jr DUB, and later in Untamed.
- hearing "you're improving".
- fair attitudes in highly unbalanced matches: for instance, many good players that matched me at the 1vs1 did shoot almost only with rico, while I tried to aim directly. This didn't prevent me to loose, of course...

Chtibidasse :turtle:

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