How could the league look next year

Please discuss issues concerning the Ducati League here. This is the liaison between league players and the league council.
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sussi
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How could the league look next year

Post by sussi » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:14 pm

League players are member of active teams.
Active teams are teams playing matches in the league.
A new team are a Jr. team, until they played some matches, its teamleader should ask the council to give the team the state active.
That decision can not cancelled, a team can get inactive. Infarct all team members from this moment onward are league players.
If a new player join a team the teamleader give him (after some matches) the right of a league-player. Than he has all privileges of every league player.
-vote
- write to the league forum -play matches (without permission of his leader)
write to the wiki
create his own side
get an history
cant be deleted

Teamleader are the backbone of the league:
Them are allowed to post news, to invite players , to make players to league players, to put proposals for the council-election and for topics what the council should decide. The right to kick player off the team (what them cut away the rights of league players). They can't forbid to play official matche to any league-player.
League teams and league players can Not be deleted, they can only reach an level of inactivity. Its certain site state the date of create and get inactive. That way we gain a kind of history, which is the best way to proof any questions of activness.

The council is a parliament. That mean its the most powerfull device in the league. Its decision can overrule all other decisions.
The league member are able to elect who are in the council. The other governmental parts (DLA, Moderators, Referees, server owners) are working for the council.
The council set the rules the server-settings and decide about bans and polls/vote. The council is leaded by a speaker.
How it could election looks:
Every Team can nominate a single league player for the council.
Every player has the equal number of voices as intended council members. That voting is secret, who has the most votes are a member of the council, lets say for 1 year. The council votes for their speaker. If somebody leave the council, every team has the right to nominate a player....
The majority of teams can request at any time new elections.

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tokimi
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Post by tokimi » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:52 am

First off, you seem to be creating a division of people here; league players,
and every one else. I for one do not see the idea of using Jr. teams going
very far at all. They are a good idea, and have merit. But based on all the
discussions I have seen lately, that concept does not seem feasable or
realy desirable (see Zongo's and my own posts).

To close the league down as you propose, by disalowinig people NOT members
of the league player class from voting, posting, or accessing certain items in
the league, seems to be counter productive, and limiting. For one, we are
trying to get new players in, and causing these kinds of roadblocks does not
seem to help that goal.
Teamleader are the backbone of the league:
Them are allowed to post news, to invite players , to make players to
league players, to put proposals for the council-election and for topics what
the council should decide. The right to kick player off the team (what them
cut away the rights of league players). They can't forbid to play official
matche to any league-player.
League teams and league players can Not be deleted, they can only reach
an level of inactivity. Its certain site state the date of create and get
inactive. That way we gain a kind of history, which is the best way to proof
any questions of activness.
But EVERY one, including team captains, can do all of these things already.
I would even go so far to assume that all players would automatically have
these rights (aside from the kicking of members off teams, of course only
team captains have that right). As for deleting teams and players, that
really does take quite a while to occomplish. Thanks to menotume, even
ancient teams can be ressurected.

Aside from all that, why single team captains out for special treatment?
Any player can make his own team and then have that said power. I would
say instead that players in general are the backbone of the league. That
way there are no special parties, nor imbalance in player rights.
The council is a parliament. That mean its the most powerfull device in the
league. Its decision can overrule all other decisions.
The council set the rules the server-settings and decide about bans and polls/vote.
Yes, that seems to be a good description of the council right now.
The council is leaded by a speaker.
Hmm, interesting idea, but is that not an issue best left for the council itself?
Though I have not seen the charter on the council and league, which I am
sure is some where in the pipline (or discarded for a better object) so I
am not one to tell. Sussi, you are in the council, so maybe bring those these
things up with them.
How it could election looks:
Every Team can nominate a single league player for the council.
Every player has the equal number of voices as intended council members.
That voting is secret, who has the most votes are a member of the council,
lets say for 1 year. The council votes for their speaker. If somebody leave
the council, every team has the right to nominate a player....
The majority of teams can request at any time new elections.
I am going to take a leap and assume that you are refering to internal
votes by the council as it stands. Based on prior work, that seems to be the
current case as well. I do not trust the majority of players in the league to
elect a good member of the council. It would not be far fetched to see the
league being turned into a beurocratic glob if open season was enacted with
the council.

As for nominations, dunno how the council thiinks now, but I seem to
remember that nominations would either be handled by chestal alone, by
nomination by the council itself, or by a public vote. The public voting
system would pose a problem I think, because of alias troubles. Besides,
this all would take away from the fact that we should all be playing! Not
dinking around with law and social structures. Thus far that would be exactly
what Quantumdot would say, cut the bs and lets get a stable system going
so we can play longer and harder. AND have as much fun as we allow our
selves to have.


edited a quote, bad copy paste
The very young do not always do as they are told, and the very old never listen any way.

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sussi
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Post by sussi » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:34 am

lol tokimi
your post sounds so good, but u forgot the basics. How you want to realise a single voting about a topic, which the majority isnt clear, whan u didnt know the numbers of persons who can vote?????

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Post by tokimi » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:30 pm

Is this what your asking me:
How would I run a vote on a topic, when I know there is no controll on the
numbers of the voting pool?

If thats so, I would avoid using that voting pool, and only use one that can
be trusted (ie no double voting with aliases). Key votes in the league, with
no assurance on keeping it to 1 vote to 1 person, does not seem to be a
good way to go. Of course, thats my cynical view.

Instead, votes on topics in the general player pool should be opinion only,
i.e no decisions can be made off any votes done in the general player pool.
That would mean that, as is the case now, that decisions are made soley by
the council. This is not a democracy here, and with the average maturity
level of the league (I think counting me brings it down to a 5 year olds level)
a democracy is not a good idea at all
The very young do not always do as they are told, and the very old never listen any way.

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Post by Chestal » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:06 pm

As I understand it, sussi's proposed system aims at solving one of the problems with general voting in the league: we just have logins and cannot avoid someone creating several accounts and thus voting multiple times. By giving privileges to logins which have played for a long time, we can be more sure that a distinct person is behind each of these logins (and that this person understands the league issues).

In the long run, this might be something to think about. However, for the moment I strongly suggest that we stick to the current council system and try to get things moving forward. As far as I can see, this is also the general consensus within the current council.

The voice of the many is still very important and it's one of the council's foremost obligations to try and honor the public opinion, even if the public has no formal rights in any decisions. Afterall, when the council makes decisions against the majority of the players, players will be leaving the league and in the end the council won't have any league left to manage :-)

Changes in council membership (mainly adding more people now on top of the initial members I chose myself) are voted on by the council itself for now.

IMHO we have to try and keep it as simple as possible at this stage to avoid getting stuck in endless meta discussions. In the end, all we want is to encourage matches and have fun in the league.

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Post by sussi » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:15 pm

Chestal your right. I want to toward into the furture. Presently other day-traiding issues are more important. If we solved that, we can continue here.

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